$200 per Day Sub-Forum

[txjeff]

I'm interested in starting a sub-forum where, with a joint interest, we come together with a "plan" that can achieve an "average" daily income of a minimum of $200/day, and maybe as high as $350/day, which includes both trading and investing (this regardless of a bear, bullish, or flat market). This "plan" would be achieved by establishing controlled trades and investments that as a group, have a sound basis and have protection from the constant changes in the market. The "plan" would have both stock and option choices.

I recognize this is just a rough idea of the sub-forum and more details are necessary, but mostly this poll is to see how much interest there would be here.

[VielGeld]

Not doable. A plan requires consensus, but each individual has his own way of seeing and doing things.

I trade intra-day patterns on 2 FX pairs, you like your options, BT is a hyperactive stock picker, MCD is all about the macro play in diverse asset classes. How do you reconcile that?

It's a nice, attractive idea: that a bunch of guys who know what they're doing should be able to generate some income by their powers combined!, but it ain't that easy.

Maybe I'm just skeptical.

[Blaine Tarr]

Jeff, Love the idea, but most ideas/stocks I play you guys will think are way to risky. Take AWSR today for example. Alerted it in my chat room under $.50; and it hit $1.80. But man it scared the poop out me. I was in at .56 avg, out just over 1.60. Then played the first dip 1.29-1.40.

VielGeld, am I really that hyperactive? LOL

I suppose I could tame it down a bit and give a few stable ideas if this plan comes to be.

[VielGeld]

^ I dunno, man. You always seem to be looking at 20+ stocks at any one time! :laugh:

I prefer sticking to one or two vehicles/instruments, get really good at reading them, and then just consistently trade those for profits. Looking over thousands of stocks for a decent setup just isn't my style.

That's part of the beauty of trading/investing, though: there's something for everyone. You can tailor your own approach and it'll work out if you do it right.

[yellow4yield]

Interesting idea, so long as there would not be any SEC rules problems (market manipulation?)

What is legal and what is not so far as a group of people working in concert?

SEC Rules...
http://www.sec.gov/about/laws/secrulesregs.htm

Other than that, I've read all sorts of books where one person (company) alone could not make a deal fly (usually takeovers), but when several or many people combined their resources, then great things could be achieved.

Also might just want to have a trial or simulated thing for awhile and see the results.

[Blaine Tarr]

Interesting idea, so long as there would not be any SEC rules problems (market manipulation?)

What is legal and what is not so far as a group of people working in concert?

SEC Rules...
http://www.sec.gov/about/laws/secrulesregs.htm

Other than that, I've read all sorts of books where one person (company) alone could not make a deal fly (usually takeovers), but when several or many people combined their resources, then great things could be achieved.

Also might just want to have a trial or simulated thing for awhile and see the results.

Unless we conspired to run up a penny stock, this little plan would not break any laws.

[nysegop]

You mean we pool our money? It costs $200 a day? We share stock picks? I'm confused as to what this would actually do.

[txjeff]

Well, these are all interesting replies, of course I expected some questions.

Let me try to break this down a little better. There are multiple ways of doing this and more than one can be used simultaneously. So, example 1:

We would set up our own "Mutual Fund" stock picks list and, as a group, "massage" it to fine tune our picks. (This is the Swing trade or Investment perspective). So we would agree to put say 50 stocks in the Cart, that we all agree would be good choices. So now you have a list of top 50 stocks. We would put them in a spreadsheet. Let's say we have 10 people in the group. Each person would be assigned 5 of the stocks and it's that person's job to keep up with the news on the company and the earnings dates, etc, or, if the stock is falling out of favor, report that. The spreadsheet would rate the stocks as 1 (for best) through 5, for first to ditch if the market gets bearish (or visa versa). Each person can play the number of shares that suits their budget or options if that is preferable. That part doesn't matter. It's more about the maintenance of the list. Those with the most skills in trading would offer advice to yield the most profit or any interesting trading strategies. Oh, and this "mutual fund", if you will, has no fees and no load to pay some other turkeys who yield a negative profit much of the time. I would also include some hedging as part of the mix.
.

Example 2:

This one goes along with the OptionsMD Iron Condor thread I posted. The way the Doc does investing, in general, is to pick a 2 month Iron Condor trade on a stock, say, like SPY. This trade consists of 10 x 4 Calls/Puts along with maintaining the target's protection buy adding Calls/Puts as needed or rolling part of the trade to protect the profit. The suggestion is that this kind of trading can yield thousands per month if skillfully handled. The group metric for this is that we all share and agree to the control trades and then we put them in place individually. Of course, you can make a cheaper play if you have less many with fewer trades, or a bigger play. As we all get skillful at this method, we most likely won't need the group after awhile and can simply venture off on our own, if we like.

Example 3:

For those who like penny stocks and higher risk, we can do that too. Share the methods and picks and, as we all learn those skills, there will be more input from everybody similar to Example 1.

There is nothing illegal about this, anymore than the sharing of info in this forum. There is no insider information.

And VG, your FX pairs idea good also be shared and as a group dynamic, if those skills are honed with all members, two heads are better than one.

With this added info, please reply if you want to at least give it a go or not. I fully understand if you would rather not and prefer going rogue. :y:

[VielGeld]

I see what you mean. This is a rather a pooling to develop a method everyone could use. But the only ones who really benefit are those who actively participate since they catch on to the nuances of the method.

This isn't a bad idea, imo. It could let some in on how others trade and it would benefit them. Of course, this is if they don't mind giving out some of their proprietary stuff. ;)

Personally, I'm game if it's a new method to everyone. There is some stuff I'm sure everyone wants to keep to themselves... I know I do. I'm pretty open and candid when discussing my strat, but I keep the edge bits to myself. ;)

[useless]

It is interesting ( think if we all helped each other pay off each others mortgages, collectively wed come out probably millions ahead )


You say 200 a day, but what amount of capital are you suggesting be required for this? ( think that is the question, moreso than the profit )


10k? 5k? seems tough to do it for less. 25k?

[txjeff]

I understand V, that you don't want to give out info. Actually, my feeling is that the market has so many "rigged" failing already that make it hard, the more transparent we all are with all our techniques the more we will learn and profit even more in an already difficult arena. But folks wish to keep methods to themselves, no one will ever know it anyway. I'm an open book and my trades would never be threatened by what we share here.

Useless; The dollar amount is what makes sense to the individual. But in the world of Options, trades are fairly cheap. In the world of stock, 10 times more. I made $400 yesterday shorting Netflix putting only $1200 into two trades and selling within 30 minutes (using Puts). Options offer great leverage with smaller cash at risk.

I used to employ a form of the strategy in 1974 in my Moravian College days in the Amerhein Investment Club. run by our millionaire economics teacher who worked for only a dollar a year. (As you know, this was pre-PCs). Many students would actually earn their tuition and were able to use a college account to trade with and keep the profits. The key was that each student was required to find one stock and research the company and current events, etc and share the ideas with the group and then decide whether it was a good one to trade or not. It brings a smile to my face, after a Google search, to see the investment club is still alive and well in Bethlehem, PA. http://www.facebook.com/pages/Amrhein-Investment-Club/195389450503037

So you know that I'm not some investment slick; I'm 57, worked for 13 years as an Engineer at nuclear power plants, and 16 years as an IT professional and webmaster. For more than 25years, I put my trust with idiot managers at Wachovia and Merrill Lynch, neither of which put more than a crumbs worth of effort into maintaining or protecting my savings, and cost me a bunch in both 2001 and 2008. The profit they earned in my accounts was pitiful compared to what my company 401k plans provided.

After 2008 I vowed to take control of my own savings and I'm glad I did. I am now semi-retired and I've been day trading now for 5 months and somewhat successful, but I strive to learn more, and make this a permanent and mobile method to keep from blowing through my savings prematurely and keep from going back to full time work. Ek! I'd like to get this to a level that doesn't require a daily trap behind a monitor all day. I think with smart trading plans, you can get away from high risk intraday trades that are the least successful and get more into trades that put some time on your side without worrying if an overnight action will cause major damage and allow for more peaceful sleep. I'd love to go out on a weekday and play golf, say, while time grows my profits. I might even have a smartphone if I need to glance at how things are going. (I still have one of those Iphone's that flips. :embarassed:)

[madcowdisease]

I'm game to contribute recommendations and discuss how I would trade the set-ups I post. However, I feel to a certain extent that I have already been doing this in the Stock Picks...Trade at your own RISK thread making my contributions a bit redundant. I'll concede it's been a bull market the last 90 days or so but some, dare I say most, of those picks have outperformed the market by a good margin. Using many of those same ideas from 1/3/12 to today's close I am outperforming the S&P by greater than 1,200 basis points realized pre-tax in my actively traded account.

My other concern with the $200/day sub-forum is that my style is to trade when the market presents high probability opportunities as it has been the past couple or three months. There are times, sometimes extended periods, where I'm basically in cash or cash equivalents if I don't like the read I'm getting on the market. Given that's the way I trade, does this approach jive with my perception of the sub-forum as an "always invested" strategy?

[VielGeld]

My method is very simple: I trade with the trend. That's basically it.

What's proprietary is just how precisely I can get an entry/exit. I nail intraday tops and bottoms of moves within 2-3 pips fairly regularly, which substantially reduces risk. Either a trade works or it doesn't. Not that it should matter since I doubt that stuff is replicateable, but whatever.

Should anyone doubt, here's a couple trades I made on Monday:

http://i1202.photobucket.com/albums/bb363/VielGeld/th_Feb202012-4.png (http://s1202.photobucket.com/albums/bb363/VielGeld/?action=view&current=Feb202012-4.png)

[/Bragging rights] :mrgreen:

-----

That said, I'd be game. One of the things I wanted to develop while playing with options was a method to consistently generate income by selling a specific structure of options. I wouldn't mind being 100% open about whatever I find either since this method would specifically be developed as a group.

So we could have someone make the option structure, another guy finds the stocks/assets that would best work with it, another figures out how to best manage the position, etc.

It could be interesting!

[txjeff]

My other concern with the $200/day sub-forum is that my style is to trade when the market presents high probability opportunities as it has been the past couple or three months. There are times, sometimes extended periods, where I'm basically in cash or cash equivalents if I don't like the read I'm getting on the market. Given that's the way I trade, does this approach jive with my perception of the sub-forum as an "always invested" strategy?

Well, I actually have two accounts. My IRA, with 4/5ths of my savings, is where I would like to use a more swing or invest style of trading. I know if it is set up correctly and simply managed, it will do better than intraday trades. I've seen it. I think the more humans meddle, the bigger the losses. So that would be one type of trading vehicle.

Then, my Margin account is where I do my intraday games and try to make my daily bread. This is where I would fool around with the penny stocks or iron condor trades. Or, try to practice new strategies.



That said, I'd be game. One of the things I wanted to develop while playing with options was a method to consistently generate income by selling a specific structure of options. I wouldn't mind being 100% open about whatever I find either since this method would specifically be developed as a group.

So we could have someone make the option structure, another guy finds the stocks/assets that would best work with it, another figures out how to best manage the position, etc.

It could be interesting!

There you go. In fact I like the TD Ameritrade tools so much that I saw in Doc's video, I may shift my margin account to them just to use that software. It far superior to what I've been using. To be fair, though, I found that Fidelity as an Options Trader software that I've yet to use. I'll check it out first. I'm sure there are folks here that have years of experience doing this who could bring us up to speed. I think the more tools we have in our bag the more profit we can keep in our pockets. That's what it's all about.

I'll give this a few more days to see how the poll pans out and we'll have a better feel for this.

Thanks.

[yellow4yield]

...I'm 57, worked for 13 years as an Engineer at nuclear power plants, and 16 years as an IT professional and webmaster...

I've read that a very large percentage of corporate CEO's have an engineering background...

Now with that said, how about using an engineering approach for all this?

Specifically "reverse engineering". Let's take it apart and see how it works!


Everyday there are certain stocks which rise in price from the "opening gate" and continue to rise in price during the day. One such stock was RAIL on Tuesday Feb 21 2012 (year given for anyone reading this in the future). It went up a couple of dollars a share on that day.

So perhaps something like this could be reverse engineered?

Who was buying that stock? Small investors? Institutional investors?

Why were they buying?

What made them to decide to buy?

What was their source of information? What are they reading?

Etc.

So far as organizing various investments, research for each, and potential buys for each...

How about a $200 per Day Sub-Forum

Then under that, specific investment idea folders.

Like "Will rise in price at market open" folder.

Then under that, general discussion and two folders...

-Research and Reverse Engineering folder - Use the brain power of everyone to figure out why a stock went up at market open. Formulate general theories and assign them a theory number. Place as sticky at top in Research folder. Like "Will Rise In Price Market Open - Theory 1".

-Predictions folder - Each post in this folder has date/time for each future prediction. Like...

2/27/2012 Stock XXX (Give full date so someone does not read it next year and buy!) Then in this post say what theory from the research folder is being used. And the basis for the prediction.

Then see what happens (nobody invest at first). And in that post discuss why the stock did whatever it did -> Refine theory in the research folder based on results. Or give it a rating based on results.

[txjeff]

I think this folder is the one for investment ideas to share based on research. Certainly, there will be no limitation to threads to discuss any ideas that will support the premise of making profit. And those that are powerful will get a Sticky at the top. Kind of like the My Stock Picks thread here that keeps going. Good comments YY. The Iron Condor plan really appealed to me, as you say, because it is an analytical play that, with some strategic threshold corrections, can provide positive results. But there is no substituting experience to understand how the market "breathes" and behaves like waves in an ocean. Also understanding the charts is important to. They are like an EKG reading to a doctor. The optionsMD video I mentioned (Video 2) in a prior message is very educational in this regard.

[Xring01]

I am interested....

Like Jeff , I am tired of trusting my money to mangers who are only interested in making money at your expense... Sep IRA

I have two accounts... One that I can completely control... And another profit sharing account where I can only choose options 1-7.... 401k...

I have a lot to learn, which is why I am on this forum...

[ratmpower]

Sound like an interesting idea. The target should however be percent gain rather than dollar amount. As someone already said, there is a big differerence between making $200 per day from million dollar portfolio vs making $200 per day from $2000 portfolio.

[nysegop]

Sound like an interesting idea. The target should however be percent gain rather than dollar amount. As someone already said, there is a big differerence between making $200 per day from million dollar portfolio vs making $200 per day from $2000 portfolio.

I second rat! :)

[txjeff]

Sound like an interesting idea. The target should however be percent gain rather than dollar amount. As someone already said, there is a big differerence between making $200 per day from million dollar portfolio vs making $200 per day from $2000 portfolio.

Good point! Percentage wise, this comes to a 20 to 45% gain. ($200 to $350 per day). I really believe that's just a starting point, and that the numbers will go higher as the group power prevails.

The reason for the dollar amounts is based on a healthy profit per year of $48k to $84k per year. (not including taxes) From a selfish viewpoint, this would be a nice retirement salary, especially once I get to a point of collecting social security and my wife and my tax bracket drops.

The rule of thumb for retirement is to invest 50% of your money and withdraw 4% per year to add to SS benefit. The investment should more than offset what you withdraw. Of course when you retire, you don't want to be as aggressive in your trades risking more money. So things shift into more conservative formats. We will need to get a perspective of the group and the age range and balances and experience to correctly understand the goals. This may create more than one plan for the more aggressive versus the more conservative.

[useless]

Why not just do it in this thread?

[txjeff]

Why not just do it in this thread?

My concern is that this will be a more organized group that has shared tasks and ongoing maintenance of the plan(s). A public thread, or even a public sub-forum, may cause a bunch of confusion as new folks come roaring in mid-stream. So, I'm thinking, instead now, of making this separate from the forum using an email communication method (maybe even phone numbers). Far more intimate. And maybe this forum can advertise the group where there is more of a buffer for new folks coming in.

This is how Mr. Manz and his Trader's Insight does business. It's daily emails with the chosen stock picks. In our case, it would be the most current revision of the plan day by day. Maybe a group webinar may come into play. Still noodling it. What do you guys think of this approach?

[useless]

Valid concerns.

Interestingly enough, I was thinking - If i had to make 200 on Monday, how would I do it? 3 days to solve this puzzle.

Question are, if not executing a decent amount of trades, say less than 10 - do you hedge them? Minimize upside, but possibly cut losses less.

[Thierry Martin]

My concern is that this will be a more organized group that has shared tasks and ongoing maintenance of the plan(s). A public thread, or even a public sub-forum, may cause a bunch of confusion as new folks come roaring in mid-stream. So, I'm thinking, instead now, of making this separate from the forum using an email communication method (maybe even phone numbers). Far more intimate. And maybe this forum can advertise the group where there is more of a buffer for new folks coming in.

This is how Mr. Manz and his Trader's Insight does business. It's daily emails with the chosen stock picks. In our case, it would be the most current revision of the plan day by day. Maybe a group webinar may come into play. Still noodling it. What do you guys think of this approach?

You can have a private forum where only those with access can enter. Access can be granted through some form of vote or approval, and I can set specific members to allow them access to your forum. You also can choose to have this forum visible or invisible to other visitors. No point in making it visible if people can't enter it, although you could have it visible with some kind of qualification to gain entry.

[useless]

Hmm.. how many of these private forums already exist that I cannot see? :D:D

[txjeff]

You can have a private forum where only those with access can enter. Access can be granted through some form of vote or approval, and I can set specific members to allow them access to your forum. You also can choose to have this forum visible or invisible to other visitors. No point in making it visible if people can't enter it, although you could have it visible with some kind of qualification to gain entry.

Hmmm. Thanks. Good info. More noodles. ;)

[Thierry Martin]

Hmm.. how many of these private forums already exist that I cannot see? :D:D

We have only done this once, a couple of years ago, when some forum members went berserk and the forum was in crisis. Some senior members communicated with each other in the secret forum until the situation was resolved. This was a lot easier than sending dozens of emails back and forth between several people. A lot of the discussion concerned whether or not to ban certain members.

I don't want to encourage invisible forums, though, because it makes the whole point of the forum useless. Hey, that's your username! I don't think we would get much traffic or new members if nobody could see the forum.

[Thierry Martin]

Maybe a better idea is to have a forum that people can see, but cannot enter unless they register. And then you can choose whether or not if after they enter the forum they can view only or can contribute. Or we can have a moderator that screens the posts. The possibilities are endless.

[txjeff]

Maybe a better idea is to have a forum that people can see, but cannot enter unless they register. And then you can choose whether or not if after they enter the forum they can view only or can contribute. Or we can have a moderator that screens the posts. The possibilities are endless.

I like that better. Well, I think we proved that there is sufficient interest to start this. If you don't mind T, could you set up the sub-forum. Let's call it The Trader's and Investor's Cooperative. (TIC for short) I'll try to come up with an agreement and a registration form. (Not to worry. The only key requirement is the willingness to participate and cooperate for the benefit of all in the group.) If you folks are game, I wouldn't have a problem being a moderator of the group along with others, in case I'm bowed up for some reason. Any other experienced volunteers?

[VielGeld]

Sounds like a plan. I like it.

Just be aware that the "solution" to this won't be mechanical. It will have to be a dynamic application that can evolve along with the market. That's the only way any strat can survive in the long run.

That said, you should def. be the mod since it's you're idea after all, Jeff. I've got plenty of exp. moderating another forum myself, so I wouldn't mind taking up the mantle if that's necessary. I think one mod is plenty, though. I doubt there'll be much need if members are pre-approved.

[Thierry Martin]

By register I meant register for the whole forum. I think it would be too much for people to have to register for a second time for a forum within the forum. So we don't need a second registration form. We can set up moderators though and have all posts for this forum on hold till a moderator approves them, or you can approve people to be unmoderated after you decide they are part of your group.

[txjeff]

By register I meant register for the whole forum. I think it would be too much for people to have to register for a second time for a forum within the forum. So we don't need a second registration form. We can set up moderators though and have all posts for this forum on hold till a moderator approves them, or you can approve people to be unmoderated after you decide they are part of your group.

Ok. I understand. Thanks.

J

[txjeff]

This link might be a good start to picking stocks by category.

http://money.msn.com/investing/stockscouter-stock-category.aspx

Here's the four types of funds I'd like to establish:

Balance Fund
Objectives: To provide stability and generate above average 3 to 5 year capital appreciation.
Strategies: Invest in mid to large capital good quality common stocks with no or low dividend yield.

Growth Fund
Objectives: To provide capital appreciation and tolerate greater short term volatility than other funds.
Strategies: Invest in stocks with above average growth rates with reasonable price and P/E ratio and PEG ratio.

Income Fund
Objectives: To generate income and provide stability to the fund.
Strategies: Invest in securities with a 1 to 3% dividend yield.

Small Capital Fund
Objectives: To provide diversification to the overall portfolio through higher risk positions in emerging markets and small businesses.
Strategies: Invest in stocks with a market capitalization of less than $1 billion with no or low dividend yields.

[txjeff]

resources:


Yahoo Finance

(http://finance.yahoo.com/)
CNNFN (http://www.cnnfn.com/)


Motley Fool (http://www.fool.com/)


Investopedia (http://www.investopedia.com/)


Value Line (http://valueline.com/)


Quicken (http://www.quicken.com/)


Investor Ideas


(http://www.investorideas.com/)Rueters (http://www.reuters.com/)


Annual Reports Service (http://www.annualreportservice.com/)

Fidelity is my broker, so with my login there are plenty of research tools

I'm sure there are dozens of other valuable links and we need a central spot to list all of them.

[madcowdisease]

This link might be a good start to picking stocks by category.

http://money.msn.com/investing/stockscouter-stock-category.aspx

Here's the four types of funds I'd like to establish:

Balance Fund
Objectives: To provide stability and generate above average 3 to 5 year capital appreciation.
Strategies: Invest in mid to large capital good quality common stocks with no or low dividend yield.

Growth Fund
Objectives: To provide capital appreciation and tolerate greater short term volatility than other funds.
Strategies: Invest in stocks with above average growth rates with reasonable price and P/E ratio and PEG ratio.

Income Fund
Objectives: To generate income and provide stability to the fund.
Strategies: Invest in securities with a 1 to 3% dividend yield.

Small Capital Fund
Objectives: To provide diversification to the overall portfolio through higher risk positions in emerging markets and small businesses.
Strategies: Invest in stocks with a market capitalization of less than $1 billion with no or low dividend yields.

These are going to be equity-only models, correct?

The reason I ask is because the term "income" in an equity format may be a bit misleading. I'd recommend delineating the portfolios based on value, balanced, and growth like the Morningstar style-box. This is industry standard and most of those contributing to the sub-forum will understand what this means.

http://corporate.morningstar.com/cf/documents/MethodologyDocuments/Morningstar_Equity_Style_Box_E.pdf

[VielGeld]

Another thing about funds: this thread seems to imply a performance strategy. If you want to generate a steady daily flow of profits, then the funds would have a very high turnover rate.

A way to reconcile this is to designate funds as part of a strategy than simply "growth" or "balance". For example "Breakout" if attempting to trade stocks about to break out, or "Intra-day trend" for specific trending moves in already steadily trending stocks, or even "The Iron Condor" for the IC idea you want to run.

Otherwise the fund idea may be a too passive "select and dump in the portfolio" type of thing. Just an idea.

[yellow4yield]

...I'm sure there are dozens of other valuable links and we need a central spot to list all of them.


That is my problem, too much information!

Therefore my interest is who is buying or selling something, and what are THEIR sources of information?

I read everything and that is not good! I will see that a stock is worth $20 and currently selling at $40, so *I* think it should go down. Yet other people have different sources of information than I, and the stock goes up to $42. Then I have missed that opportunity!

So I guess I am not so interested in all sources of information, rather JUST the sources of information the majority of people use to make their buy decisions.

[txjeff]

That is my problem, too much information!

Therefore my interest is who is buying or selling something, and what are THEIR sources of information?

I read everything and that is not good! I will see that a stock is worth $20 and currently selling at $40, so *I* think it should go down. Yet other people have different sources of information than I, and the stock goes up to $42. Then I have missed that opportunity!

So I guess I am not so interested in all sources of information, rather JUST the sources of information the majority of people use to make their buy decisions.

Well, I recognize that some will want to just reap the benefits of the work of others, but I'm not so sure that's fair. I would rather that all members learn how to do research, pick a couple of reliable sources, and get involved. I know I threw out a bunch of info up front, but it will get broken down to much smaller pieces that are tolerable. I'm sure the first time a person turned on Windows, they were overwhelmed. Now people just know where to go and how to click, right?

[txjeff]

These are going to be equity-only models, correct?

The reason I ask is because the term "income" in an equity format may be a bit misleading. I'd recommend delineating the portfolios based on value, balanced, and growth like the Morningstar style-box. This is industry standard and most of those contributing to the sub-forum will understand what this means.

http://corporate.morningstar.com/cf/...tyle_Box_E.pdf (http://corporate.morningstar.com/cf/documents/MethodologyDocuments/Morningstar_Equity_Style_Box_E.pdf)

Not to worry. This is just the tip of the iceberg. It will not always be just equity based. It is true that those particular fund ideas, in principle, are equity based thought processes. Currently, 100% of my investing revolves around equities. BUT, I do not want to restrict myself or anyone else to this for future thinking. In fact, there are no restrictions except that a plan is hatched (or plans) and we trust that the plan(s) work. Part of these fund ideas is to accommodate those interested in swing/investment level trading say in an IRA type account that has tax deferral.




Another thing about funds: this thread seems to imply a performance strategy. If you want to generate a steady daily flow of profits, then the funds would have a very high turnover rate.

A way to reconcile this is to designate funds as part of a strategy than simply "growth" or "balance". For example "Breakout" if attempting to trade stocks about to break out, or "Intra-day trend" for specific trending moves in already steadily trending stocks, or even "The Iron Condor" for the IC idea you want to run.

Otherwise the fund idea may be a too passive "select and dump in the portfolio" type of thing. Just an idea.

All true. As I think I mentioned though, this is only 'one' part of the 'system' or plans. I would like to have some money in some foundational, stronger, long term strategies, and some money in the iron condor strategy, and some money in intraday trades based on pure speculation.

I also think the make up of a plan or plans will depend on the individual and how much cash he/she has to trade. An older guy like me will probably have a bunch of plans set up. A younger person might just have one or two. So this is just a beginning. I'm hoping our group focus will create more profits in all our different styles/plans. Truly that is the master goal. Shoot, if I find that one system works better than the rest, I might just choose to go with the one and abandon the others in my personal savings.

[Blaine Tarr]

Well, I recognize that some will want to just reap the benefits of the work of others, but I'm not so sure that's fair. I would rather that all members learn how to do research, pick a couple of reliable sources, and get involved. I know I threw out a bunch of info up front, but it will get broken down to much smaller pieces that are tolerable. I'm sure the first time a person turned on Windows, they were overwhelmed. Now people just know where to go and how to click, right?

Good Post. This is exactly what bugs me when people expect me to shell out my penny stock "picks" and info for free. I have put a crap load of time and effort over the years to get good at it. Why the heck should I help some random dude on the internet who is just looking to "use" someone else's ideas to make money. And thus the reason why people can pay to chat with me live during the trading day if they wish. It's a trade I willing to except.

Now as far as this project goes, I am willing to contribute info on small/micro caps that appear ready for a move. I will stay above $1 and under $5. Consider Otcmarkets.com covered. As long as others provide info/ideas in this plan as the "trade-off" if you will; I'm willing to pitch in some ideas. Thanks TxJeff for clarifying this to others.

[yellow4yield]

Well, I recognize that some will want to just reap the benefits of the work of others, but I'm not so sure that's fair. I would rather that all members learn how to do research, pick a couple of reliable sources, and get involved. I know I threw out a bunch of info up front, but it will get broken down to much smaller pieces that are tolerable. I'm sure the first time a person turned on Windows, they were overwhelmed. Now people just know where to go and how to click, right?

Actually I was not saying your list above is too long, rather it is a short list of research sites because I could add a WHOLE bunch more to quadruple the size of that list!

So my point is that many people might use just a few sources of information. Once upon a time that was the Wall Street Journal...

So I'm wondering what most people use for their information?

Or what are the most visited financial web sites?

[yellow4yield]

In answer to my own question, most visited financial web sites, I found a list from 2007. This is what I am looking for...
(Says Yahoo, MSN Money, AOL, Forbes, ...)
http://seekingalpha.com/article/47233-the-most-trafficked-financial-websites-yahoo-continues-to-lead

[Blaine Tarr]

I would also suggest learning how to read SEC filings as that is a direct source rather than a 3rd party who has worded the results how they wish. (WSJ, Forbes, etc)

[yellow4yield]

I would also suggest learning how to read SEC filings as that is a direct source rather than a 3rd party who has worded the results how they wish. (WSJ, Forbes, etc)

Right. That is the stuff I read and more.

I found a current list of the top financial web sites...

Top 15 Most Popular Business Websites
February 2012

Yahoo! Finance 50,000,000 - Estimated Unique Monthly Visitors
CNN Money 49,000,000 - Estimated Unique Monthly Visitors
WSJ 27,000,000 - Estimated Unique Monthly Visitors
Google Finance 24,000,000 - Estimated Unique Monthly Visitors
MSN MoneyCentral 23,000,000 - Estimated Unique Monthly Visitors

Full list...
http://www.ebizmba.com/articles/business-websites

[VielGeld]

Yeah, I was sort of thinking "if this thing gets off the ground, and non-members can peek into it, doesn't that defeat the point?" :laugh:

But I think it should be fine. If you're making your money off other's method(s), then you're beholden to them for any trade ideas. Your wins/losses are not your own, and you don't have any control over what you do. And then, what if your source suddenly dries up? You're up the creek with no trading skills to speak of. Terrible way to trade for a living, imo.

Besides that, trading skills are something you develop with experience. Guys who only trade on tips can't tell head nor tails about price direction, so they're subject to their own failings and lack of experience.

So I say making it publicly viewable should be fine. I suspect only those actively managing trades will benefit in the end.

[txjeff]

Yeah, I was sort of thinking "if this thing gets off the ground, and non-members can peek into it, doesn't that defeat the point?" :laugh:

But I think it should be fine. If you're making your money off other's method(s), then you're beholden to them for any trade ideas. Your wins/losses are not your own, and you don't have any control over what you do. And then, what if your source suddenly dries up? You're up the creek with no trading skills to speak of. Terrible way to trade for a living, imo.

Besides that, trading skills are something you develop with experience. Guys who only trade on tips can't tell head nor tails about price direction, so they're subject to their own failings and lack of experience.

So I say making it publicly viewable should be fine. I suspect only those actively managing trades will benefit in the end.

Yes, publicly viewable, but not necessarily privy to all the communication that might go on behind the scenes nor open to commentary. I just don't want a bunch of critique's from people who are not actively part of the plan(s).

[yellow4yield]

I'm not interested in "tips" or a list of what to buy/sell...

Rather I am *very* interested in the research aspect of this. There is a LOT of knowledge out there.

Once you get to discussing if a certain investment is a good idea (or not)for the future, various people can chime in with how they would determine that.

Then you can see what happens with that investment. See which predictions came true. Then use those methods for making more accurate future predictions.

So not "buy this". Rather "I would buy this because"...

And BTW if someone said something is a good investment because it said to buy it on Yahoo, then that is a good reason if that method consistently predicts positive results.

[txjeff]

Actually I was not saying your list above is too long, rather it is a short list of research sites because I could add a WHOLE bunch more to quadruple the size of that list!

So my point is that many people might use just a few sources of information. Once upon a time that was the Wall Street Journal...

So I'm wondering what most people use for their information?

Or what are the most visited financial web sites?

Ok. I understand what you are saying. Really, this is a starting point. All sites and news can sometimes offer a tidbit of info that gets a rally started. But really, with all of our involvement, the shorter and more productive the list is, the better. Shoot, I'd actually like to pick the ONE best place for the source that we all agree on and stick with that, if there is such a thing. When it comes to earnings, I don't trust any source. But mostly earnings only matters severely with short term traders. Long term accounts may choose to ignore earnings and recognize that fundamentally, even if a good company has a not so good quarter, it won't destroy the trade. I'm sure some wire service can offer tidbits of news before it shows up to the general public (perhaps by minutes).

However, if there is confidence that an earnings report might damage a trade, I see no point in holding it. Really, the two biggest sufferers I saw this past 6 months was Amazon and Google. This is where options are a far safer play than stock, especially high dollar stock.

Using Mr. Manz's trading style, he mostly stays away from the NSDQ. And I see what he means. Those stocks are far more unpredictable in nature than the rest. Although their the most exciting. But it excitement is both negative and positive. Sticking to a plan will, IMO, be far more rewarding than seat of the pants speculation.

Imagine a trade or set of trades that moves at a pace and you can simply steer it toward consistent profits and adjust it as needed with different levels of tolerance. Gambling may be exciting, but I never came home from Vegas with a pocketful of cash.

[madcowdisease]

Not to worry. This is just the tip of the iceberg. It will not always be just equity based. It is true that those particular fund ideas, in principle, are equity based thought processes. Currently, 100% of my investing revolves around equities. BUT, I do not want to restrict myself or anyone else to this for future thinking. In fact, there are no restrictions except that a plan is hatched (or plans) and we trust that the plan(s) work. Part of these fund ideas is to accommodate those interested in swing/investment level trading say in an IRA type account that has tax deferral. .

Let me know when you wish to delve into fixed income. This is where my professional background is based and where my expertise lies (if I have such a thing). I've found the biggest issue in fixed income for non-institutional investors is finding a suitable broker. The retail markup you're going to experience at a Scottrade or an E*Trade type of outfit is going to make fixed income cost prohibitive for the most part, especially in this ultra-low rate environment.

Regarding the discussion of informational sources, some of you may remember Aiki14. Much like Aiki14 my profession exposes me to copious amounts of sell-side research and news from a multitude of staff economists and analysts. A lot of it is proprietary so I won't be able to post it directly but much of my analysis on these boards is my own synthesis of this data along with what I see in raw form from outlets such as the Fed, Bloomberg, and the Conference Board. I can commit to contributing this "stew" of information but I won't be linking the reports on here.

[txjeff]

Let me know when you wish to delve into fixed income. This is where my professional background is based and where my expertise lies (if I have such a thing). I've found the biggest issue in fixed income for non-institutional investors is finding a suitable broker. The retail markup you're going to experience at a Scottrade or an E*Trade type of outfit is going to make fixed income cost prohibitive for the most part, especially in this ultra-low rate environment.

Regarding the discussion of informational sources, some of you may remember Aiki14. Much like Aiki14 my profession exposes me to copious amounts of sell-side research and news from a multitude of staff economists and analysts. A lot of it is proprietary so I won't be able to post it directly but much of my analysis on these boards is my own synthesis of this data along with what I see in raw form from outlets such as the Fed, Bloomberg, and the Conference Board. I can commit to contributing this "stew" of information but I won't be linking the reports on here.

Good stuff all. I like fixed income at times. I might put my wife's IRA into that. She just rolled it into Fidelity with me as an independent account though. Right now it's just sitting in cash.

[txjeff]

I just wanted to say that now, after watching the third video of the optionsmd course concepts, I am seriously interested in joining their course (yes I knew this was a setup to gain some fee for the course). It really seems to fit with where I'm trying to go with my long term goals of consistent daily income, except it is a Swing trade process typically that is used over the course of a month or two. It also doesn't seem to be as time absorbing as the day trade intraday process. I should hear about the course within the next couple of days.

What this means of the 'plan' and ITC is that I would like to put my 2 cents into the options swing trading arena (which covers Equities, Forex, and others), and provide the benefit of what I learn from the course. This doesn't meant that I will copy infringe on the course, but I can tell you on any given week or month what I'm trading and why, based on the chart. That alone should be enough. I should be able to assist with the equities side of the 'plans' as well.

If you are interested in his course, at optionsmd.com (https://tradingconcepts.infusionsoft.com/go/altroad/fiasco/), I would suggest you watch the first 3 videos currently available at the website and next week the solicitation will show up. I haven't found the cost anywhere. I'm guessing it won't be that cheap. Anyone take this already?

[VielGeld]

I have serious doubts about any of these sorts of "mentorship" programs. Very likely, it's all info you're able to get sniffing around the 'net (i.e. free!), or it's a plain scam.

I also doubt you're in for anything less than a couple k. These things charge you an excessive amount most of the time.

So check it out, with fists firmly in tubs of salt. I personally would not touch anything of the sort with a 100-mile long pole.

[Thierry Martin]

I have serious doubts about any of these sorts of "mentorship" programs. Very likely, it's all info you're able to get sniffing around the 'net (i.e. free!), or it's a plain scam.

I also doubt you're in for anything less than a couple k. These things charge you an excessive amount most of the time.

So check it out, with fists firmly in tubs of salt. I personally would not touch anything of the sort with a 100-mile long pole.

I agree that most of these courses are not needed for people that can find the information on their own. However, there are many traders who are just starting out and they are really helped by a course or mentor that can guide them in the right direction. Of course the trick is to find the right mentor or course. There are a lot of scams and heavily marketed but poor services out there.

As for the OptionsMD course (https://tradingconcepts.infusionsoft.com/go/altroad/fiasco/), which we are promoting here at the forum, Doc Severson spends a lot of his time answering questions and helping his students, and also explaining options strategies which are quite difficult for the average investor. The ultimate test of these kind of promotions is your ability to get a refund, which is protected by your credit card company if you have any problem with the vendor.

Some products and services we have promoted in the past had high refund rates - when this became apparent we stopped promoting those products, because we don't want to be recommending disappointing products or services, even if we make money promoting them, and we don't like losing any referral fees from the refunds either.

The OptionsMD (https://tradingconcepts.infusionsoft.com/go/altroad/fiasco/) course, which we have promoted before, (this is actually a relaunch), has had an extremely low refund rate, under 2%, which should be an indication of customer satisfaction with the service.

We would never promote any of these courses, systems or mentoring programs if they didn't have easy, no-questions asked, 30-day or 60 day refund policies, so that if you don't feel you are getting your money's worth, you are completely protected.

[txjeff]

Thanks both for the opinions and input. It is a $2000 fee for the Options course. So it isn't cheap, but if it is consistently profitable, it can pay for itself. The main site is tradingconceptsinc.com (https://tradingconcepts.infusionsoft.com/go/mainsite/fiasco/) They offer four types of courses; options, e-mini futures, forex, and stocks. I do like that they are clear to say that there is no such thing to the "magic formula" or "holy grail" of systems that will provide perfect results.

The system(s), from what I see, are geared to teach you how to make smarter trades with techniques that offer different levels of risk, depending on the personal aggression of the trading style. I haven't seen specific info about success rates yet. I plan to speak with them on the phone tomorrow and will ask some pointed questions. Most scams, if you Google search for the name with the word "scam" after it, will come up with hundreds of results. I don't see a swarm of negative complaints about this company. I see some.

I will ask pointed questions about those complaints as well. Also, I have enough experience now with options and a variety of stock and options trades that I see clearly where they are going with the principles shown in the videos. I may have enough info already to try this solo since much of the ingredients are given in the free videos.

Also, keep in mind, I don't expect to immediately make a bunch of profits. In fact, since the option trades are swing trades with 2 months duration, you have to wait until the expiration to see the ultimate profits/losses.

[Thierry Martin]

You can see a whole bunch of Doc Severson's videos for free on his blog here:

http://tradingconceptsinc.com/author/docseverson/ (https://tradingconcepts.infusionsoft.com/go/docblog/fiasco/)

It's a whole trading education right there!

[txjeff]

You can see a whole bunch of Doc Severson's videos for free on his blog here:

http://tradingconceptsinc.com/author/docseverson/ (https://tradingconcepts.infusionsoft.com/go/docblog/fiasco/)

It's a whole trading education right there!

Excellent. Gotta spend time there. Thanks!

[txjeff]

These TC videos are from a month or more ago. If there's any sign Doc knows what he's talking about, it will be the way these forecast the future events. We'll see how far off or on the "tea leaves" are"



http://tradingconceptsinc.com/author/docseverson/page/3/ (https://tradingconcepts.infusionsoft.com/go/docblog/fiasco/)

[useless]

If knows what he is talking about, you will become rich and buy me a corvette right? :cool2:

[txjeff]

If knows what he is talking about, you will become rich and buy me a corvette right? :cool2:

I'll just shoot for paying my bills and not being in debt. Ok, I'll get you a vette:

https://secure.cartkeeper.com/%7Ewheels77/products/DSC01053.jpg

[txjeff]

Doc's video on the last day of an iron condor trade that has high probability, meaning there is time on it's side and requires active defensive trades. He shows how an iron condor, mostly designed to work best in a flat trade, performed at 16% profit in the recent bull market and a strong rising SPY.

http://tradingconceptsinc.com/6561/breakdown-february-iron-condor-trade/ (https://tradingconcepts.infusionsoft.com/go/febironcondor/fiasco/)

[useless]

I made it finally - woohoo. expected slightly more action though!!!

You guys must be enjoying the nicer weather!

[txjeff]

It's still a work in progress. Don't expect this "bing, bang, boom" rush to trading. I always find impulsive plans the same as costly.