Arab World Unites Against Israel

[aiki14]

Air, ground and naval units from Iran, Saudi Arabia, Syria, and Egypt have been seen massing for battle. Large fleets representing the combined navies of several countries steam toward the Israeli coast and the Straights of Hormuz. Representatives of the Arab league vow to stand united against the Israeli aggressors.

When Chickens have lips.

Israel pounds Lebanese territory effectively isolating country, Lebanese President whines, Arab world remains with finger in A**.
Mahmoud you have permission to make me another felafel:p

What hits par first? Oil or CVX?
Allah Akhbar

[InvestingMoron]

Israel claims that their force is proportionate for reclaiming their lost soldiers.

When pigs fly.

Killing innocent civilians and preparing to destroy cities, steal more land, and rape/pillage the innocent Lebanese doesn't relate to getting their lost little piglets back. Israelis are more concerned with driving the conflict to broader involvement which will eventually include the US. Without the US, Israel would crumble like the house of cards that it is.

Turn off your FoxNews and CNN and tune in to BBC. You'll see just how biased and partisan the US media is concerning the Israeli image. It's ridiculous for the media to portray Israel as an innocent non-aggressive democracy. That's just bogus.

Roll around in your trough til you're blinder than a home plate ump, aiki14.

[aiki14]

I was not defending Israel, I was attacking your credibility to comment. State for the record you are not an antisemite, and you use the Navy Jack avatar as a statement of the states rights issue (even though we know this was a battle flag and never was the official flag of the confederacy)
You don't like Israel, clearly, but you make poor arguments which lack cogency. That intimates racism rather than a logical premise.

Lee surrendered, he was a man of honor, a winner in every thing he did prior to that act and yet he had the sense to respond to the following (the first statement is paraphrased but the quotes are his words),

Now there were men who came with smouldering eyes to Lee and said: "Let's not accept this result as final. Let's keep our anger alive. Let's be grim and unconvinced, and wear our bitterness like a medal. You can be our leader in this."

But Lee shook his head at those men. "Abandon your animosities," he said, "and make your sons Americans."

(me again) You made the statement your ancestors were slaveholders, which indicates landed gentry, you speak as one who is frustrated that you are no longer in that class. If you are proud of your heritage it should be expressed with joy not anger.

[InvestingMoron]

Read next post.

[InvestingMoron]

Sure, you're entitled to your opinion and I'm entitled to mine. We're going to leave it at that, my friend.

You don't know what it's like to have my heritage, upbringing, and experiences, and I don't know those of yours. Neither do I care to. If you form your opinion based on half-truths and bullsheet, by all means, feel free. But for the sake of keeping it civil, I'm just going to draw the line right here rather than fill out a profanity-laden personal attack. I think we're better than that on this forum.

[aiki14]

Sure, you're entitled to your opinion and I'm entitled to mine. We're going to leave it at that, my friend.


If you'd have left it at that, your response would have been deserving of respect. But ...

[oldboldpilot]

In 1979 Iran captured 66 Americans and held them hostage for 444 days. At that time our illustrious leader was Jimmy "Peanut" Carter who also had a difficult time with the word "nuclear" although he stated he was a "nucular" engineer. At that time, had the United States been led by anyone other than an emasculated Georgia peach we would have put an end to so much middle east terrorism that the world would be far different today. Criticized for his weak kneed response to the captive situation, Carter then went on to show what a strong character he really had and prevented our athletes from participating in the Olympic games in Moscow as a protest to their actions in Afghanistan. Now THAT was funny .....and pathetic.
There was a time when, if a Russian soldier was captured, there would be an immediate and dramatic response in the form of massive retaliation. That is something that was understood and something that I respected. The action by Israel against the Hezbollah is comparable to the actions of the Russia of old. When diplomacy doesn't work there aren't many alternatives.
Personally, I applaud Israel for it's actions. I just wish the United States had displayed the same loyalty to it's citizens. How long has the massacre of innocent Israelis gone on ?? Hundreds of men, women and children slain by insane religious zealots and yet, when they answer in kind they are the aggressors ? There is a time to draw a line in the sand and I guess this was line drawing time.

[InvestingMoron]

How long has the massacre of innocent Israelis gone on ?? Hundreds of men, women and children slain by insane religious zealots and yet, when they answer in kind they are the aggressors ?


You're kidding, right?

I guess pushing the Palestinians into concentration camps and murdering them doesn't count.

Neither does occupying Lebanon.

[LIBERTARIAN1]

Well when theres war, S*** happens.

As a veteran myself, ive seen it first hand bombs explode=people die

I dont get it, when theres war people want no casualties, isint that a oxymoron?

How about no war? but wait theres been war sence the begining of time, i dont see it going away anytime soon. :(

Im just hoping with all this we dont see a major crash,( maybe a little one so we can make some money). Oh , and get a motorcycle great gas milage :)

[NATHAN LLOYD]

Israel is acting pigheaded and arrogant since they know Bush has their back. They have several captives in prison, but they demolish a country because they have taken two of thier soldiers prisoners. That is a pathetic abuse of power! Bush backs this BS.

War is for idiots who don't know how to take their testosterone out on a female. People are acting like animals these days, and Bush is their leader. What happened to people becoming civilized? I see the world has gone backwards since our lame-duck, incumbent has been parading around the world starting wars everywhere possible. He shure has slowed down the progress of humanitarianism!!! It's going to take the world several years to get back on track from this mess. I sure hope people in the US can come to their senses and get a democratic house and senate in to slow this President's destruction down!

[oldboldpilot]

You're kidding, right?

I guess pushing the Palestinians into concentration camps and murdering them doesn't count.

Neither does occupying Lebanon.

Nope, not kidding ! It is readily apparent that you're a bit subjective when it comes to the state of Israel, maybe of it's very existence ?
You must also condemn the United States for it's supportive position of Israel, calling for Hezbollah to lay down arms.
You must feel that every act of violence in that region has been initiated by Israelis ...... am I getting this right ? The Palestinians have never launched a terror attack upon Israeli civilians ??? I guess it's a bit difficult for you to see the discrepancies in your arguments so I will cease attempting to do so.

Ma'assalama my friend and may Allah be with you !

[NATHAN LLOYD]

Israel shouldn't exist. You have a religion claiming a country like they're really a race or something. Britain and the US helped this come about as a way to support Christianity in the face of Muslims. Israel's presence has caused nothing but violence. No one can dispute this fact!

How can people think that destroying roads, bridges, airports, and apartment complexes is a constructive or necessary way to get back two soldiers. Those who agree with what Israel is doing are not using one bit of common sense. Don't people realize that Israel has captives of their own? Do people think Israel has a right to occupy space when they're just a religion? Even if you think they have a right to get back their soldiers with the use of force, how can you think economically crushing a country by destruction is effective? This group that took the soldiers should be targeted, and not the economy of the country. The government of Lebenon had nothing to do with the abduction of these two soldiers.

Isreal's leaders are acting like spoiled children who didn't get their way. You wont give me back my soldiers, so I'll stomp on your model houses waaaaaaaaaa. This is such a reversion to selfish animal instincts. I would rejoice if Iran had a nuclear bomb that blew Israel off the map. The world would be much more peaceful. It would definitely serve the Jews right for demolishing a country over two soldiers!

[oldboldpilot]

[QUOTE=NATHAN LLOYD]Israel shouldn't exist. You have a religion claiming a country like they're really a race or something.

That's pretty funny Nate. I don't mean to be provocative but how long has it been since you boned up on your history ?

"The Pilgrims were English Separatists who founded (1620) Plymouth Colony in New England. In the first years of the 17th century, small numbers of English Puritans broke away from the Church of England because they felt that it had not completed the work of the Reformation. They committed themselves to a life based on the Bible."

Seems to me THIS country was established in virtually the same manner as Israel.

Having said that, I don't believe I will argue this subject any longer. It seems to elicit a great amount of virtiol and I think we have more of that commodity than we really need.

I'm not Jewish Nate but SHALOM ! LOL

[creativeexpression]

Seems many here are WAY off the topic and even more distorted by their personal/traditional bias. This is not about Lee vs Grant, or Andersonville vs. Camp Douglas or whether we are Southern Americans or Northern Americans, African Americans or, like me, Scotch, Irish, English and French. As AMERICANS our existence, our culture, our economy, our views towards faith and our very way of life make us the enemy of MUCH of the world. Now many of those opposed to us, many vehemently hating us, see an opportunity to strike out at us either directly or through our allies. Can the U.S., economy, et. al., AFFORD to police the world? Can we afford not to? Throw together the Arad world, the Russians, the Chinese, the Koreans and so very many more and that's a LOT of hate...and power. Most of the animosities have been going on for hundreds and hundreds of years and the forces at play deeeply rooted. Most of the other powers are unimpressed by the U.N.. When they all get together and combine their ancient hatreds, MILLIONS of troops, and nuclear capabilities with little hesitation to use them it becomes a whole new ball game. Our stocks and general economy are already taking a hit, but the hit to come could be far more ominous. Thus far, we have been very, very lucky and there have been no concerted, ongoing major assaults on our turf. This could easily change. OK, wargames time folks, and you are the President, what would you do.? Now to kick this up a notch: REVELATION 9

[NATHAN LLOYD]

Think of all the relatives of people that were killed by the US. How many more would be willing to be a suicide bomber to destroy something in the US now that several more people had relatives die due to our vehemence. It seems this hatred from killing people would abate the longer we left people alone.

Boldpilot: There is a little bit of difference in the US and Israel. We don't have 1.5 billion Indians living around the US that are trying to get their land back like Israel has 1.5 Muslims surrounding it that want their land back. I still disagree with what we did to the Indians, but that isn't causing constant death, destruction, and wars now. I'm sure 9-11 wouldn't have occurred if Israel didn't exist.

I don't like the terrorists because they're counterproductive. I hate them as much as everyone, but we shouldn't destroy or invade countries over this. We're being as counterproductive as them when we do this. I do think we need a few elite counter-terrorist units that use collected intelligence and work to take out terrorist operations. If we could target them without destroying whole countries, this would be so much more productive. We have aircraft carriers, and laser guided bombs/missiles that could continuously work at destroying terrorists after intelligence has shown proof of terrorist operations.

Israel, in destroying Lebanon, and the US, in destroying Iraq, have accomplished the destruction of any peace progress between the Arab nations and the western world. This is really hurting world trade and world commerce. I'm afraid our economy is going to collapse a lot further as a result of these actions.

[aiki14]

I hate to find myself in the role of defending Israel as I abhor violence, but here goes.
Within the lifetime of many of the residents a concerted effort was made to eradicate them as a people (The holocaust). Most of the world did little to support them (The Vatican, and Pres Roosevelt were particularly egregious). Combine this with 2000 yrs of pogroms and religious persecution. This makes them very protective of the little scrap of land they hold. And it isn't really good land for farming or natural resources.
The Arab world could assimilate the Palestinians easily but fractiousness has prevented it, and the Palestinians have rejected it for the obvious reason that they consider it their homeland. Were it not for the religious aspect it would be easy for coexistence as the physical area is large enough for both populations.
Outside support would be required no matter who occupied the territory as it doesn't have the resources to support either the individual or combined populations.

To Nate, Surely you would not rejoice in the total annihilation of Israel and all the collateral innocents that would include? The statement is beneath you unless I have totally misread you.

I have seen too much death and suffering in my life (up close and personal) and what we need is to forget the trangressions of the past, and move into the future living by the golden rule. The Satyagraha would be a good rulebook for international relations, because the eye for an eye mentality is unhealthy for everyone.

[creativeexpression]

Some interesting reading from an historical perspective:
http://www.hallindseyoracle.com/articles.asp?ArticleID=13115

This has been building for a long time; in many ways a LONG LONG time. Reminds me of when we used to practice hiding under our desks in the fifties in case they dropped the big one on Atlanta.

We can still hide under our desks and pretend we are protected, but this whole scenario is in every way potentially bigger and more dangerous than most have any thought. It wasn't that many years ago that the Soviet Union was one of the most powerful nations on earth, but that disappeared virtually overnight. BUT, by any other name the potential for a 200 Million man army exists, as does the ability to light up the skies and most of them hate us.

[oldboldpilot]

I deplore war maybe more than most because I have been up to my ankles in the blood of comrades.
I think it was that ole' miscreant Rodney King who said, " Can't we all just get along" ?? And the obvious answer is HELL NO !
I cannot condone American foreign policy in most instances. It is my opinion that our tactics have alienated the entire world and there are times when I am ashamed of being an American.
I agree with Nate that a counter-terrorist elite force would be a solution but how would it be formed ?? Do you suggest an international group or do we (as the world's police force) take it upon ourselves to enforce law and order (our style) ??
In our world, turning the other cheek just gets you two slapped cheeks. I wish I had the solution...then I could be like my hero, Jimmy Carter and lobby for the Nobel Peace Prize just like he did !
Ah hell, I'm getting to be an old scurrilous rapscallion. Now, can anyone tell me how I can make a buck in this catastrophic environment or is this Armageddon and I should not be worried about gathering shekels and just kiss my a$$ goodbye ?

[NATHAN LLOYD]

To Nate, Surely you would not rejoice in the total annihilation of Israel and all the collateral innocents that would include? The statement is beneath you unless I have totally misread you.

No, I'm just irritated with their destruction of so much over two soldiers. I was grumpy when I wrote that...just out of bed. That was a stupid comment by me.

I think we would have to just police the world ourselves, but have a way of showing that what we did was a justified act against terrorists once it was done. Just a few would have to be the ones deciding if our intelligence was accurate and if we should use our elite forces against them. If we used the UN, nothing will be accomplished. Additionally, who else could we trust?

[NATHAN LLOYD]

I think we would have to just police the world ourselves, but have a way of showing that what we did was a justified act against terrorists once it was done. Just a few would have to be the ones deciding if our intelligence was accurate and if we should use our elite forces against them. If we used the UN, nothing will be accomplished. Additionally, who else could we trust?
CONTINUED:

An election (from within the house) would select 12 representatives (6 from each party) to be briefed on what our FBI antiterrorist groups found would be about right. This way it could be a bipartisan decision on whether there was proof enough to use our elite forces against what was shown to be an active terrorist group. Of course, the president would get the final say on whether the plan would be used or not. After the actions were carried out, then the press would be briefed on the proof that was found and why the actions were carried out for the world's safety.

It would be nice to get the UN to approve something like this, so we'd have the ability to police the world. Since we'd be using our soldiers to police the world, it seems that the UN would realize we would have to brief others after the actions were caried out for our soldiers safety. I think they'd accept a plan like this. It's not like India and the UK haven't been targets of terrorists lately. Additionally, it's not like we haven't been trying without there approval in the past.
Anything like this to keep us from invading and destroying whole countries would be much better accepted by the rest of the world--including those like me in the US. Like I said, I hate terrorists as much as anyone, but we should work at being more productive or selective in how we fight it. Doesn't it seem like this could be a better way to promote world peace and world trade?

[creativeexpression]

Seems to me we are all thinking as westerners here. To them, WE are the terrorists, the over zealous religious infidels, and the perpetrators. Do you read Putins references to crusaders..AND see the anger in his face and george's? Haifa was a key entry port for the crusaders who were out on a "mission from GOD" to save the world from the Muslims and the arab states even then united to defend the world from the Christians. Their memory is still one of Christian invaders in their land killing men, women, and children. They haven't forgotten. For the communists or others allied against us we, and our values, are the enemy. None of this is going away any time soon. For the Muslims the Jihad impels action, for the Chinese, Koreans, Russians and so many more it is their way of life and thinking versus ours. Together, and they are working together, the explosiveness of this is incredible. One nuke and most of our data and digital systems virtually diasappear, i.e., the beta factor.
Now, to be pragmatic, how best to position one's portfolio? I am currently holding AA, DVN, EBAY, ENG, GAX, GW, NOK, NWS, PALM, SIRI, TLAB, TOMO, VPHM, XING, YHOO . Most are down. On the one hand I think it best to sit tight, but watching what I can to sell on any recovery and reposition. Your thoughts?

[Svenwulf]

Air, ground and naval units from Iran, Saudi Arabia, Syria, and Egypt have been seen massing for battle.
point of fact- saudi arabia and egypt came out this weekend blaming hezbollah as primary instigators. That said, only a fool would think they are on our side. Far from defending the state of isreal, i judge those by their actions: guerillas target civillians (stike one) hide behind civillians (strike two) then complain when their civies get hurt (strike three) I do find humor on the US cautioning "restraint" in responding to terrorist attacks (rockets)- dont invade a country on trumped up intel. imagine if french canadians were shelling niagra (unrealistic example) and canada claimed they could not control their borders. i think we all know the us' response. jmo- saw everyone else throwing down and was away for the weekend.

[creativeexpression]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/uc/20060720/cm_uc_crlelx/larry_elder20060720

[BuyOnDips]

If you took away the weapons from Hamas and Heezboolah there would be peace. If you took away the weapons from Israel, there would be another holocaust. Israel wants peace, the radical muslim extremists want to wipe out Israel.

Since the UN does nothing to enforce their resolutions(how many people died in Rwanda while the UN did nothing?), it's up to Israel to once and for all end the violence by wiping out Heezbolah and disarming Hamas. Stopping the war now with a cease fire would only help the terrorists and allow fighting to resume in the future. Israel needs to finish the job, even if they have to attack Syria for resupplying their enemies.

The USA will eventually bomb Iran. Their nuclear sites will be destroyed. Diplomacy won't work. It failed miserably with North Korea (The Clinton administration were fools) and now they are supposed to have some nukes(at least their long range missile capability sucks). Bush won't let Iran get them.

By the way, most arab countries are more afraid of Heezbollah and Iran than they are of Israel. They all know Israel wants peace.

[BuyOnDips]

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2006/07/pacifists_versus_peace.html

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2006/07/a_cycle_on_nonsense.html

2 great articles by one of the world's great thinkers.

[madcowdisease]

If you took away the weapons from Hamas and Heezboolah there would be peace. If you took away the weapons from Israel, there would be another holocaust. Israel wants peace, the radical muslim extremists want to wipe out Israel.

Since the UN does nothing to enforce their resolutions(how many people died in Rwanda while the UN did nothing?), it's up to Israel to once and for all end the violence by wiping out Heezbolah and disarming Hamas. Stopping the war now with a cease fire would only help the terrorists and allow fighting to resume in the future. Israel needs to finish the job, even if they have to attack Syria for resupplying their enemies.

The USA will eventually bomb Iran. Their nuclear sites will be destroyed. Diplomacy won't work. It failed miserably with North Korea (The Clinton administration were fools) and now they are supposed to have some nukes(at least their long range missile capability sucks). Bush won't let Iran get them.

By the way, most arab countries are more afraid of Heezbollah and Iran than they are of Israel. They all know Israel wants peace.

The UN is so mired with restrictions and regulations that it is impotent and might as well be defunct. It is absolutely worthless because they cannot take action due to the way the organization is structured and its checks and balances (it's always in check).

You speak of Rwanda but that was in the past. We now have the Darfur region where yet again our Muslim neighbors are committing murders of millions of "infidels" as they put it. And once again, the UN does nothing.

I listened to an Israeli official addressing the struggle with Hezbollah and it made perfect sense to me. He said, and I paraphrase, Hezbollah is like a cancerous tumor. Would you just scratch the tumor and put a band-aid on it? Or, would you go in and remove the tumor so that it can never come back? We can draw a parallel to what Israel is doing using this gentleman's analogy. The bombs were the pills or medicine, say Taxol, used to knock out the cancerous tumor. But the tumor is too resilient for this treatment. So, as we see today Israel is prepared to send in ground forces to cut out the tumor like a surgeon. Seems like a reasonable plan to me.