How Can Day Trading Ever Be Profitable?

[tz51548]

After spending way too much time throwing my money away, it has become pretty obvious to me that I'll never make any money rying to day trade because prices ALWAYS turn against my trade within seconds.

It is amazing to me how consistently this happens, and I am at a loss to understand how my trade of 300 shares can consistently change the direction of the price of a stock trading 30 million shares a day. Well, it changes it until I close my position and take my loss - the it resumes its "normal" movement.

It's been explained to me that Market Makers and Specialist can and will manipulate the price of a stock in order to increase their short term profits, and I tend to think that this is actually the primary driver behind intraday price movements.

Assuming the market isn't singling me out for this treatment, I have to wonder - how does anyone make money at all day trading??

[roadtool]

So am i assuming you to say as soon as your buy turns down you immediately selll ? my only suggestion is if thats accurate is to hold your feet to the fire and let your buy gain legs and see where your going , not thats its bad having a bottom number to sell out at , but it may take a little more than your giving your choices , if you dont have confidence in your trading dont .

[wallstreetsedge]

try one of my online courses :P

also if you day trade, play holdings based on your charts time intervals...

[LongArm]

1. Don't believe the conspiracy theorists who whine about specialist/market maker manipulation. These people are usually just looking for excuses for their own poor trading. Any manipulation that may occur is generally very minor and short-lived (such as briefly nudging the price over a well-known support line, for example). Significant manipulation can't really happen on the major exchanges, for many reasons.

2. If you look back at a chart showing your entry/exit points, you may find that if you just changed things a little bit, the results may have been a lot better. For example, you may find that your stops were too tight considering the volatility of the stock. Or perhaps you based them on a comfortable (for you) dollar amount rather than technicals (not usually a good strategy, IMO). Or perhaps you could have had better confirmation on your entries. Or perhaps your strategy just isn't a good one (8O). Could be any number of things.

[tz51548]

Thanks To each of you - Roadtool, Wallstretedge, and LongArm for your replies.

I definitely stipulate that I am unskilled with regards to choosing proper entry and exit points. I can tell by reading some of the posts on this site that there are some folk who are very savvy with technical trading.

Still, my question remains. Am I the only one that the markets seems to trade against? It seems to not matter whether I go long or short, large cap or small cap, against or with the prevailing trend. There may be a couple of moment that my stock will go sideways somewhat, but invariably...it moves against me in a big way.

Isn't it just beyond reason that this would almost always (i.e. over 90% of the time) be the case?

LongArm, I'm afraid my conclusions aren't based on a conspiracy theory - it's more the implausability that even an unskilled trader could achieve a 99% wrongside rate.

I still have to wonder - am I the only one that this happens to?

[tz51548]

Hi Roadtool. I replied kind of en masse to all who were kind enough to respond to me, but I did want to answer yours specifcally because it points something that I have found especially frustrating.

I don't immediately close my position as soon as it turns south . As a matter of fact, in those very few instances where I have come out even or ahead, it was because I "doubled down" after the trade initially turned against me.

These days, I don't double down as often as I am weary of giving the market too much of my money, but it really doesn't seem to matter if it's seconds, minutes, or hours that I let the trade ride.

Mind you, this is not so much about me venting - the way I see it, I'm the idiot for continuting to trade after this became apparent. I am just very curious because it just seems too incredible to imagine that I am the only one this happens to.

[Gzapper]

your impatient or you shouldn't day trade due to your lack of good entry points... i dunno just my opinion

[aiki14]

Hi Roadtool. I replied kind of en masse to all who were kind enough to respond to me, but I did want to answer yours specifcally because it points something that I have found especially frustrating.

I don't immediately close my position as soon as it turns south . As a matter of fact, in those very few instances where I have come out even or ahead, it was because I "doubled down" after the trade initially turned against me.

These days, I don't double down as often as I am weary of giving the market too much of my money, but it really doesn't seem to matter if it's seconds, minutes, or hours that I let the trade ride.

Mind you, this is not so much about me venting - the way I see it, I'm the idiot for continuting to trade after this became apparent. I am just very curious because it just seems too incredible to imagine that I am the only one this happens to.

Don't be too hard on yourself, most people who try this fail. Be appropriately hard on yourself, analyze the trades, see where you went wrong, and modify your techniques. That's the only way to do this thing. Most successful traders and I include myself in that, didn't make money from day one, they had to fight the battle for a while, then they came upon the style that worked for them and went on to success.

[tz51548]

your impatient or you shouldn't day trade due to your lack of good entry points... i dunno just my opinion

I like your opinion and agree wholeheartedly! I simply may not have the necessary disposition for this- let alone technical skill. Still, I fear that the way I phrased my question might have indicated that I was "looking for help." That is not the case.

I am just trying to place what I've experienced in context in my own pea-brain - which is why I am interested in whether other people have seen the same thing happen to them.

Maybe it is just me that's somehow earned this distinction. Either way ....pretty amazing to me.

[haroons222]

try one of my online courses :P

also if you day trade, play holdings based on your charts time intervals...

Hi
Im assuming you mean your website...
Im a medical student about to enter work.I want to learn trading while i train since i dont want to work crazy hours all my life....Now i know it takes time to learn and unlike science this seems more of an art.
I want to start small and i was thinking day trading would be agood option but apparently its hard...
Any advice about where i should start and if i shud do any reading.The only thing i know abt trading is the name...
any input is greatly appreciated...thanks

[wallstreetsedge]

if you want to start reading... look for books by toni turner
i also offer a good short, easy to read candlesticks ebook that ive been getting good reviews on

[haroons222]

Hi
Thanks for the advice..ill be free in a couple of weeks and then take it from there...