Iran + Bush

[NATHAN LLOYD]

Kind of scary what is going on. We wonder why stocks are tanking. Iran has been testing misiles while enriching uranium.

Iran’s President, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, has challenged the reality of the Holocaust and said that Israel must be “wiped off the map.” Bush and others in the White House view him as a potential Adolf Hitler, a former senior intelligence official said. “That’s the name they’re using. They say, ‘Will Iran get a strategic weapon and threaten another world war?’ ”

A government consultant with close ties to the civilian leadership in the Pentagon said that Bush was “absolutely convinced that Iran is going to get the bomb” if it is not stopped. He said that the President believes that he must do “what no Democrat or Republican, if elected in the future, would have the courage to do,” and “that saving Iran is going to be his legacy.”

Another war. Well Bush is wanting to make history for himself. I'd say that Iran really wanted to make nuclear power plants if they haven't been testing nuclear weapons at the same time.

I know this is off topic, but it's the reason why everything is red right now.

[bludevil007]

maybe bush will finally get around to starting a legitimate battle after spending years, lives, and dollars killing iraqis for no reason. the only thing bush has going for him is the economy, and we all know that He really has nothing to do with that. the war against iraq, the constant scare tactics, the invasions of privacy, the curtailing or elimination of fundamental civil rights, the cheney-shotgun incident, scooter-libby - i mean, come on - if you voted for this guy last time, you have to be second guessing yourself now. the one basic thing i demand from a president is honesty, and W is obviously lacking in that department. Regardless of the outcome with regards to Iran (which im more inclined to believe deserves sanction, and probably military intervention), his legacy will always be lies, lies, incompetence and more lies...

P.S. No more Bu**sh**

[TheChartGuru]

Kind of scary what is going on. We wonder why stocks are tanking. Iran has been testing misiles while enriching uranium.

Iran’s President, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, has challenged the reality of the Holocaust and said that Israel must be “wiped off the map.” Bush and others in the White House view him as a potential Adolf Hitler, a former senior intelligence official said. “That’s the name they’re using. They say, ‘Will Iran get a strategic weapon and threaten another world war?’ ”

A government consultant with close ties to the civilian leadership in the Pentagon said that Bush was “absolutely convinced that Iran is going to get the bomb” if it is not stopped. He said that the President believes that he must do “what no Democrat or Republican, if elected in the future, would have the courage to do,” and “that saving Iran is going to be his legacy.”

Another war. Well Bush is wanting to make history for himself. I'd say that Iran really wanted to make nuclear power plants if they haven't been testing nuclear weapons at the same time.

I know this is off topic, but it's the reason why everything is red right now.

Yes, the Iranian situation is certainly more dangerous then just what it is doing to the market. It will be up to President Bush to take care of Iran because I just don't see Hilary or McCain taking on Iran. This being Holy Week, may be a good time to find and accept God. The world is a very dangerous place right now with no remedy in sight.

The Guru has spoken

[TheChartGuru]

maybe bush will finally get around to starting a legitimate battle after spending years, lives, and dollars killing iraqis for no reason. the only thing bush has going for him is the economy, and we all know that He really has nothing to do with that. the war against iraq, the constant scare tactics, the invasions of privacy, the curtailing or elimination of fundamental civil rights, the cheney-shotgun incident, scooter-libby - i mean, come on - if you voted for this guy last time, you have to be second guessing yourself now. the one basic thing i demand from a president is honesty, and W is obviously lacking in that department. Regardless of the outcome with regards to Iran (which im more inclined to believe deserves sanction, and probably military intervention), his legacy will always be lies, lies, incompetence and more lies...

P.S. No more Bu**sh**

With all due respect, I certainly don't see President Bush as a liar. Perhaps that is how the media portrays him, but I'm not that gullible to accept the left wing media as being honest in their "reporting". The Cheney incident was just an accident but the media just could accept that. The government has not wire tapped my phone because I'm not a terrorist. Those that are into illegal activities are the ones need to be worried. I don't mind the wire tapping as long as we remain safe. Funny, not one American citizen has accused the US government of illegally tapping their conversations. I certainly don't want to start a potilcal debate in this forum so I will end by simply saying that thank God Gore or Kerry are not president.

The Guru has spoken

[Mad Girl Investor]

In the interest of all of us remaining the supportive community we are, lets not talk politics...especially since I voted for Kerry. :)

Agree to disagree?


Ok, good, now lets go make some money.

[InvestingMoron]

We are in this position because of our ties with Israel. That's the hard truth. If we didn't allow Israel to run and hide behind our backs every time they picked a fight with someone, they wouldn't exist. All this, and there are more Israeli spies in the US than any other country has spies in the US.

I believe that Iran has every right to explore their nuclear options as they wish, but only to use that option for defense of their country. I never believe that any country should use a strategic nuclear asset as an offensive, or pre-emptive strike. Not even the US, whether it be a tipped Tomahawk or a Trident II D-5 sending a W-88 on a Mk V configuration.

Let Israel reap what they sow.

[bludevil007]

lies may not be the appropriate word, so i apologize for speaking too quickly, but incompetence is. i dont think GW is an evil man, i just think he's not worthy of the position. there are just certain ways a human with any common sense would have reacted to the various scenarios he's encountered. Take the scooter libby debacle. Bush cant go out saying "this is a city full of people who like to leak information" and then leak information himself. A president with any integrity would have addressed wilson's accusations not by telling his vp to tell his vp's chief of staff, to tell judith miller information, but by holding a press conference and formally declassifying information that was safe to declassify. He didnt have to get into a toe-to-toe battle with him, but he could have simply said "my critics say...., but this is what i actually believed at the time, etc etc." That would have garnered my respect. Instead, he leaves his buddy hanging out to dry.

The Cheney disaster is just another example of incompetence. Who leaks a story to the local press about a shooting accident when he's the vp of the U.S.? Come on! Logic tells you, immediate press conference - not a too-little-too-late interview on a biased network.

Finally, "the media" does not portray bush in just one particular, liberal fashion. Just turn on Fox News. And the truth of the matter is that Bush's approval ratings are absolutely dismal. So even if the media is portraying him poorly, they're merely reflecting the views of a majority of Americans.

Bush ran on a campaign of "honestly" - he had that kind of "im gonna tell it to you like it is swagger" that convinced a lot of Americans that he was the right guy for the job, apparently. That mystique is gone. I have no idea if Kerry would have acted any differently. I imagine he would have. I know Hillary would have. I wont play a game of the "what ifs" - but this whole thing is going to hell in a handbasket (pardon the phrase), and in a hurry.

[bludevil007]

PS. for the sake of comraderie, that will be my last political post - I PROMISE! :)

[Luc1Grunt]

Thank God....The Real God, the one True God. :lol:

[InvestingMoron]

You're welcome.

[NATHAN LLOYD]

Just so you know Blue Devil. I'm totally on your side here. I've dissed Bush really bad before, and I found at that a lot of people in here are republicans who voted for him in here. Sorry to all y'all.

Disclamer: I'm warning those who like Bush to not read below.

I think it's Bush's fake Christianity that got Christians to vote for him, and it was his cowboy hat that got prejudice morons to vote for him. That is why he's in office.

He hasn't done everything wrong, but he sure has made the average American look like an idiot for voting for him. :)

[Bman409]

In the interest of all of us remaining the supportive community we are, lets not talk politics...especially since I voted for Kerry. :)

Agree to disagree?


Ok, good, now lets go make some money.



I'm down with that.. don't get me started about the current Administration, that's for sure.

Corrupt as I've ever seen.

[stockviper]

Just so you know Blue Devil. I'm totally on your side here. I've dissed Bush really bad before, and I found at that a lot of people in here are republicans who voted for him in here. Sorry to all y'all.

Disclamer: I'm warning those who like Bush to not read below.

I think it's Bush's fake Christianity that got Christians to vote for him, and it was his cowboy hat that got prejudice morons to vote for him. That is why he's in office.

He hasn't done everything wrong, but he sure has made the average American look like an idiot for voting for him. :)

Bush was better than the alternative!... "I have a plan!" ya, right.

[Pierre]

Tell you what... as a registered republican and supporter of the Bush administration...if it will make you guys happy, I Pierre the daytrader, promise to vote in 2006 for Ralph Nader...

With all due respect, Nate, Christianity has nothing to do with it... and it's not really worth the trouble tryin to explain to someone who is convinced otherwise, it's a no-win argument for both sides... I do respect yer opinion and thank you for sharing...

[fightknight]

As an Iraqi i don't think US will risk going to war with Iran. Iran is one powerful nation right now. The only reason bush went to war with Iraq is because he wanted to prove to daddy he can, to boost US economy, and take control of the oil in that region. Without oil US and other industrialized nations will have major economic problems. All IMO of course...and no, I don't like Saddam but I do think the world was safer before this pointless war.

[Robert L]

LOL I am a Bush supporter, there is NO OTHER PRESIDENT in the history of the United States, who has had to deal with the problems this man has, he has had one heck of a tough 2 terms here, and I would never in a million years want some Faggot like Kerry representing the United States.

I agree with investingmoron, we are in this situation because of Israel, but I Don't agree that Iran has the right to do anything except wear a towel. I don't trust them, I don't trust anyone for that matter.

I would vote for Bush again if I could.

I hope our next 4 years is NOTHING like the last 8 have been, and in case you forgot, we were attacked on our own soil on Sept. 11, it's easy to forget, but I had many friends, and friend's Family members that died there, and frankly I don't care if they blow up the entire Middle East, take all the oil, and laugh for a century over it.

It's rediculous, and ludicrous to think that this man has down anything that is "wrong" and I am glad he was there, I bet if you had to step up to the plate of dinner he did, you would probably either cower like a wimp, or make some mistakes too.

Rob

[fightknight]

Typical

LOL I am a Bush supporter, there is NO OTHER PRESIDENT in the history of the United States, who has had to deal with the problems this man has, he has had one heck of a tough 2 terms here, and I would never in a million years want some Faggot like Kerry representing the United States.

I agree with investingmoron, we are in this situation because of Israel, but I Don't agree that Iran has the right to do anything except wear a towel. I don't trust them, I don't trust anyone for that matter.

I would vote for Bush again if I could.

I hope our next 4 years is NOTHING like the last 8 have been, and in case you forgot, we were attacked on our own soil on Sept. 11, it's easy to forget, but I had many friends, and friend's Family members that died there, and frankly I don't care if they blow up the entire Middle East, take all the oil, and laugh for a century over it.

It's rediculous, and ludicrous to think that this man has down anything that is "wrong" and I am glad he was there, I bet if you had to step up to the plate of dinner he did, you would probably either cower like a wimp, or make some mistakes too.

Rob

[fightknight]

Just because one small group of people did something wrong doesn't mean you have the right to go and blow up an entire category of people. To me, Bush is also a terrorist; he brought terror to my nation and I hope he burns in hell.


PS: we should close this thread

[BOOOYAHOOO!]

Tell you what... as a registered republican and supporter of the Bush administration...if it will make you guys happy, I Pierre the daytrader, promise to vote in 2006 for Ralph Nader...

With all due respect, Nate, Christianity has nothing to do with it... and it's not really worth the trouble tryin to explain to someone who is convinced otherwise, it's a no-win argument for both sides... I do respect yer opinion and thank you for sharing...

The irony is that Dubya basically got re-elected because he made fokes feel that he was stronger on national security than Kerry....yet the homeland security stocks are the only sector in the entire mawket place that can be considered great long term buys! LOL Everything else is a "crash and boin" fo da most pawt. Pretty kewel the way the mawkets can get things so wrong simply because it is controlled by human emotions. Dubya the oil and corruption Prez...look what sector is trading near the highs! Dubya to strenghten homeland security? Yeah! Right! LOL My only wish is that da mawkets make the adjusto before the upcoming elections and if not....definitely before the next Prez election. I think our current leadership should get credit for what happens when policies get so whacked out that there is no way out but a disaster in da financial mawkets. Too bad Steve Forbes could't get elected since he is really the only politician out there with a clue. If the Dems can't get their chit together they doan deserve chit either. So many openings to discuss bad policy with the American public yet all Arlen Specter wants to tawk about is a CIA leak. Idiots! LOL

[fightknight]

sorry one more thing i swear. Do Americans really think that their troops should die for someone so curropt and ignorant?

[BOOOYAHOOO!]

sorry one more thing i swear. Do Americans really think that their troops should die for someone so curropt and ignorant?

No, but we should be thankful that we have enough young men and women that luv this country enough to put their lives on da line for whatever reason. Just be thankful you ainna Frenchy...or are ya? If you are lemme axe ya sumthin. How's it feel to be such a chicken chit that you welcome terrorists within your borders? :o

[fightknight]

I said I was Iraqi

No, but we should be thankful that we have enough young men and women that luv this country enough to put their lives on da line for whatever reason. Just be thankful you ainna Frenchy...or are ya? If you are lemme axe ya sumthin. How's it feel to be such a chicken chit that you welcome terrorists within your borders? :o

[stockviper]

I don't think this started with Iran or Bush of the present. I put it back to the spineless Jimmy Carter and the Iran hostage crisis years ago. It could probably go farther back than that but I'm only 40 and that's when I first started caring about politics.

Short story is (Dem) Carter couldn't do anything, (Rep) Reagan was elected and the hostages were released a week later. Since then I've had no respect for the Dem. leadership. Just my opinion.

[Tooty]

sorry one more thing i swear. Do Americans really think that their troops should die for someone so curropt and ignorant?

Canada's nice eh? be glad you are not back in Iraq. You remember it was said when 'rogue' nations would have the bomb in 15 years or so. Well, it is about 15 years or more since that was said.

[BOOOYAHOOO!]

I said I was Iraqi

Great! Then how's about yuns guys get yer chit together so you can take care of yer own crap and we can get to hell outta dodge?!! Wassa matta wit all dem clowns we be trainin to be your police force? Iraqis aren't that inept.....are they? :o

[Tooty]

Great! Then how's about yuns guys get yer chit together so you can take care of yer own crap and we can get to hell outta dodge?!! Wassa matta wit all dem clowns we be trainin to be your police force? Iraqis aren't that inept.....are they? :o

OK

[NATHAN LLOYD]

I'd like to see Donal Trump run for office.

He'd be able to make the US economy more efficient.

We were attacked in 9/11 because Bush was in office.

If the faggot Kerry was in office, he'd be making friends with the Arabs right now. :)

For every terrorist we kill, we create many more people who hate us. Everyone that is killed has a big family that hates the US ten times more because we killed someone they love. Some of them will be seeking ways to get revenge on the US. We need to think about it from their perspective as well.

If we put the trillions that we spent on war into alternative energy and alternative automobiles, we'd be much better off than getting the oil out of Iraq. We've spent trillions of our taxes on war. Have you seen the gas prices go down because of this? Hell no!

[Tooty]

I'd like to see Donal Trump run for office.

He'd be able to make the US economy more efficient.

We were attacked in 9/11 because Bush was in office.

If the faggot Kerry was in office, he'd be making friends with the Arabs right now. :)

For every terrorist we kill, we create many more people who hate us. Everyone that is killed has a big family that hates the US ten times more because we killed someone they love. Some of them will be seeking ways to get revenge on the US. We need to think about it from their perspective as well.

If we put the trillions that we spent on war into alternative energy and alternative automobiles, we'd be much better off than getting the oil out of Iraq. We've spent trillions of our taxes on war. Have you seen the gas prices go down because of this? Hell no!

I think we should cool out on this board and stick to what we do and try to make some $$$. agreed?

[Robert L]

Just because one small group of people did something wrong doesn't mean you have the right to go and blow up an entire category of people. To me, Bush is also a terrorist; he brought terror to my nation and I hope he burns in hell.


PS: we should close this thread

see what's the difference? What is the difference between how you feel and I feel? You want us dead, we want you dead, it's the same bloody thing, you just don't seem to get it do you?

Do you know how many people have died in the name of God? More than ANY other reason on the planet, personally I would LOVE TO SAY: Let's stop all this and put down the arms, I would LOVE TO SAY THAT, but give me a freakin break, it's never gonna happen, and one thing that America doesn't do, is strap a bomb to themselves and run into an area of people with completely innocent children and women, and kill them just for the sake of it.

Now of course this has happend in the past, of course it has.

America, England and Australia will prevail in the end, you'll see. You'll see what happens in the end, go ride a donkey you worthless waste of life.


It HAS NOTHIGN TO DO WITH WHO THE PRESIDENT WAS....For those that don't seem to understand why they hate us it's simple

They hate Israel, they war with them all the time over the "Holy Land" and they see Israel with weapons like big mofo tanks that they got from the US, you think Kerry would have made one bit of difference? Go push a baby carraige, or whatever it is that you do.


It's a primarily religous war HOW MANY PEOPLE MUST DIE IN GODS NAME!?!?!

oh and fyi, your not gonna get any virgin's in heaven, that's a lie, Qua'ran says some pretty crazy things, and if you truely believe them your about as rediculous as the Christians (yes I'm Episcoplian actually).

My family built this country on both sides. My family fought on both sides in the civil war and they have thier blood in this land, and if Uncle Sam calls me up, IM BLOODY GOING. This is the greatest nation on Earth we are talking about here, not some silly people that don't even have any food, we BUILT EVERYTHING, and we will continue to do so regardless of what you people choose to do or not.
ob

[fightknight]

see what's the difference? What is the difference between how you feel and I feel? You want us dead, we want you dead, it's the same bloody thing, you just don't seem to get it do you?

Do you know how many people have died in the name of God? More than ANY other reason on the planet, personally I would LOVE TO SAY: Let's stop all this and put down the arms, I would LOVE TO SAY THAT, but give me a freakin break, it's never gonna happen, and one thing that America doesn't do, is strap a bomb to themselves and run into an area of people with completely innocent children and women, and kill them just for the sake of it.

Now of course this has happend in the past, of course it has.

America, England and Australia will prevail in the end, you'll see. You'll see what happens in the end, go ride a donkey you worthless waste of life.


It HAS NOTHIGN TO DO WITH WHO THE PRESIDENT WAS....For those that don't seem to understand why they hate us it's simple

They hate Israel, they war with them all the time over the "Holy Land" and they see Israel with weapons like big mofo tanks that they got from the US, you think Kerry would have made one bit of difference? Go push a baby carraige, or whatever it is that you do.


ob

It's people like you who's making America go down the drain. I don't want to argue with ignorant Islamaphobics. The whole world ( except the Israelis) are against you but you still persist on being this GREAT NATION that does good. Whatever happened to North Korea.Korea admitted to having nuclear weapons...hmm...US realized Korea's strength...so they forgot all about them. If the country is so great than how come people are leaving in record numbers? Also, Islam is the fastest growing religion in the world. So wether you like us or not, we will surround you.

[InvestingMoron]

BOOYAHOO talked about countries with terrorists within their borders. We welcome Israelis to the US, what's different about that? Israel has terrorized the Middle East since....1950-whenever-it-was their vision of a nation came forth. Israel DOES have a nuclear program, the US knows NOTHING about the exact amount or capability, and there are Israeli spies in the US who penetrate American secrecy and ship those documents back to Israel.

Do you want peace in the Middle East? Or the world, for that matter? And not have to worry about all this garbage? Then, stop protecting TERRORISTS and let them REAP WHAT THEY SOW.

[Damon]

Damon was here. http://www.cramersmadmoney.com/images/icons/icon6.gif

[Robert L]

It's people like you who's making America go down the drain. I don't want to argue with ignorant Islamaphobics. The whole world ( except the Israelis) are against you but you still persist on being this GREAT NATION that does good. Whatever happened to North Korea.Korea admitted to having nuclear weapons...hmm...US realized Korea's strength...so they forgot all about them. If the country is so great than how come people are leaving in record numbers? Also, Islam is the fastest growing religion in the world. So wether you like us or not, we will surround you.

What does that mean? The people who are making America go down the drain, are the people that are forgetting what it took to GET this in the first place.

What is this "we will surround you" all about you realize that you are no better than me with your comments, you are no better than me, both of us are in the wrong, but no one wants to see that, and in the end, we will win. What are you gonna do? You guys don't even have any weapons, I mean, are you gonna camel us to death?

Personally I feel that we should boycott Israel. Not everything America does is good, and the whole Korean incident to my knowledge was eventually settled. But it's never settled, it's never gonna change. As long as there are people that will DIE for what they believe in, it's never gonna change. Muslims (the militant ones) scare me, becuase they will die for something that is completely rediculous in the first place. It's the same as the Christians, it's the same as the Spanish when they slaughtered half of America in the name of GOD. ITS THE SAME THING

But we will prevail in the end, our technology is better, our tactics are better, and I think when it comes down to it, most countries would rather stand with us than the middle East, purely on the fact, that you guys have nothing to offer more than oil, and considering that only about 20% of ours comes from the Middle East WE ARE NOT OVERLY CONCERNED.

Rob

[TheChartGuru]

What does that mean? The people who are making America go down the drain, are the people that are forgetting what it took to GET this in the first place.

What is this "we will surround you" all about you realize that you are no better than me with your comments, you are no better than me, both of us are in the wrong, but no one wants to see that, and in the end, we will win. What are you gonna do? You guys don't even have any weapons, I mean, are you gonna camel us to death?

Personally I feel that we should boycott Israel. Not everything America does is good, and the whole Korean incident to my knowledge was eventually settled. But it's never settled, it's never gonna change. As long as there are people that will DIE for what they believe in, it's never gonna change. Muslims (the militant ones) scare me, becuase they will die for something that is completely rediculous in the first place. It's the same as the Christians, it's the same as the Spanish when they slaughtered half of America in the name of GOD. ITS THE SAME THING

But we will prevail in the end, our technology is better, our tactics are better, and I think when it comes down to it, most countries would rather stand with us than the middle East, purely on the fact, that you guys have nothing to offer more than oil, and considering that only about 20% of ours comes from the Middle East WE ARE NOT OVERLY CONCERNED.

Rob

Again, with all due respect, can you tell me when Christians slaughtered other people or bomb or killed in the name of God in the modern world? I'm not talking back in the dark ages. I mean recently. As a religious group too, not some fanatic bombing an abortion clinic. As far as I know, we Christians are a religion of peace. Just read our Ten Commandments and tell me where does it say to kill in the name of God? Where does it say in our Bible to kill anyone that is not Christian? No disrespect to other religions, but Christianity is not a fad religion or a fanatical, militant religion. I am a proud Catholic and I get offended when we are metioned in the same breath with radical extremist.

May the Lord be with you........

The Guru has spoken

[Gonz]

The people who are making America go down the drain, are the people that are forgetting what it took to GET this in the first place.

Precisely. And what it took to get here in the first place was a healthy respect for dissension, which is why freedom of speech is enshrined in the first, and not the fifth or sixth, amendment.

"A faggot like Kerry"??? "Go ride a donkey"??? If you have a valid political point to make, go right ahead. But otherwise your homophobia and your racism need to be left at the door.

Bush has had a lot of problems to deal with...so it's really a pity that he's not dealing with them. Does anyone remember 9/11? Remember who perpetrated that crime against humanity? Osama bin Laden and Al Qaeda. Osama bin Laden is still at large, still holding fricking press conferences, for Chrissakes. 9/11 happened to me, too. I want justice. I want revenge. Neither were to be had in Iraq. But rather than exact our pitiless revenge on those who attacked us, we moved vital military resources out of Afghanistan and into a nation that had precisely nothing to do with it, and left ourselves militarily overextended.

Sure, Saddam Hussein is a bad man. But so was Milosevic. He too was guilty of genocide. But it was the Republican senator Richard Lugar who had this to say when we tried to stop that particular atrocity:

This is President Clinton's war, and when he falls flat on his face, he'll have no one to blame but himself.

Can you imagine the fallout if a Democrat had something like that to say today?

Of course, now if you feel like saying that the President made some bad moves, the right (which, I've noticed, is heavily represented in this thread) will instantly label you as "unpatriotic." This is America. There's nothing more patriotic than dissent. Suppressing dissent is fascist. Just ask the Founding Fathers.

Israel conspicuously refused to sign the Nuclear Non-proliferation treaty. Why? Because they have, at last count, 88 nuclear warheads, which we provided them. That's more than enough to level Iran--and most of the rest of the Middle East for that matter--and Iran knows that. The problem with the Bush policy, however, isn't that it discourages nations to develop nuclear weapons...it encourages them to do so, as fast as they possibly can. If you've any doubts about that, just check with Kim Jong Il. If you have the bomb, you won't be dictated to. Ask around. Look at Pakistan. Look at India. Ten years of toothless sanctions, then what? Outsourced computer jobs are all yours.

I, for one, would love to see McCain at the helm. If nothing else, at least he's fought in a war.

[madcowdisease]

Well, I might as well piss of the whole board and throw in my 2 cents if everyone else is doing it :lol:

the one basic thing i demand from a president is honesty, and W is obviously lacking in that department.

You're kidding right? Honesty out of a politician? It doesn't exist. If they told you the truth you wouldn't vote for them period. This goes for both sides of the political spectrum. All politicians are POS. George Carlin, the comedian, does a good skit in his "You Are All Diseased" act where he discusses this. You might want to check it out it's quite funny with a message that is sadly... true.

I believe that Iran has every right to explore their nuclear options as they wish, but only to use that option for defense of their country.

:roll: I hope you're kidding. The country's leaders, and from what I know the majority of the citizens too, are religious fanatics that march in the street every Saturday after worship to Allah chanting "Death to America." You're going to let those crazies get nuclear weapons? If so, I'm getting the hell outta dodge.

Also, Islam is the fastest growing religion in the world. So wether you like us or not, we will surround you.

That wouldn't have anything to do with the coercive tactics of the governments of Islamic nations would it? Perhaps the fact you can be executed for possessing a Bible? Maybe the fact that your children are automatically Muslim and have no freedom of choice? The fact the schools teach strait out of the Koran and ordinary citizens have access to nothing other than Islam and children are inundated with Islam everyday?

This isn't a cut 'n' dry phenomenon. Religions other than Islam value human rights and allow their followers to come and go. Perhaps that's why there are so many secularists in Europe. They have the liberty to choose which religion to belong to, if any. They aren't forced unlike the whole of the Middle East. Islam capitalizes on and manipulates the ignorant. When you keep your women oppressed and prevent them and whole groups of people from obtaining an education it is easy to convince someone that all the things promised in the Koran will be presented in the afterlife. In the Western world we're a little to acute to buy into that junk. If the Middle East would liberate their people they wouldn't believe it either. Why do you think the fundamentalists are so pissed about the democratizaton of Iraq?

Again, with all due respect, can you tell me when Christians slaughtered other people or bomb or killed in the name of God in the modern world? I'm not talking back in the dark ages. I mean recently. As a religious group too, not some fanatic bombing an abortion clinic. As far as I know, we Christians are a religion of peace. Just read our Ten Commandments and tell me where does it say to kill in the name of God? Where does it say in our Bible to kill anyone that is not Christian? No disrespect to other religions, but Christianity is not a fad religion or a fanatical, militant religion. I am a proud Catholic and I get offended when we are metioned in the same breath with radical extremist.

May the Lord be with you........

You made mention of "The Dark Ages" in your post so I'll let you in on a little fact. The Crusades were a direct retaliation of Islam's conquests. Islam was "founded" in the 7th Century and not 50 years later in the year 711 it had murderously spread across Northern Africa in the Moorish invasion of the Spanish Peninsula. Religion of peace my a$$!! It's got blood all over it.

[fightknight]

By fasting growing I didn't mean population wise, I meant number of converts.

[madcowdisease]

By fasting growing I didn't mean population wise, I meant number of converts.

Show me the data. I studied this in college and the reasons for Islam's growth are multi-faceted. One, all of the above in my first post. Two, Islamic countries have higher birth rates for various reasons including poverty and being bereft of women's rights. Three, the Western World has a birth rate that doesn't even keep up with replacement level, especially in Europe.

I don't want to say anything too harsh here before I see the data, but I am quite skeptical at this moment that these converts are willing. Aren't there millons of Christians in the Sudan being slaughtered at the hands of Muslims right this second? Seems I'd convert to save my life too.

[Gonz]

Again, with all due respect, can you tell me when Christians slaughtered other people or bomb or killed in the name of God in the modern world?

The name "Tim McVeigh" ring any bells?

[BOOOYAHOOO!]

It's people like you who's making America go down the drain. I don't want to argue with ignorant Islamaphobics. The whole world ( except the Israelis) are against you but you still persist on being this GREAT NATION that does good. Whatever happened to North Korea.Korea admitted to having nuclear weapons...hmm...US realized Korea's strength...so they forgot all about them. If the country is so great than how come people are leaving in record numbers? Also, Islam is the fastest growing religion in the world. So wether you like us or not, we will surround you.

For da fokes who think da mawkets started selling off today because of the topic of this discussion....please....GET A CLUE! LOL But while we have sumbody from Iraq with opinions I'd like to axe him the question again...because 1. Fightnight didn't answer it the first time I axed and 2. It seems like da solution to fightnight's problem wit America. So Fightnight, lemme axe you agin. The Iraqi people don't want Americans in Iraq. I'm sure it goes farther than Americans since it's a religious thing but anywho, here be da question one mo time. If the solution to your problem is to be self sufficient..why is it taking so long for Iraq to become self-sufficient? You guys isn't gonna tear da crap outta each other if we leave...are ya? :o

[wallnut]

For da fokes who think da mawkets started selling off today because of the topic of this discussion....please....GET A CLUE! LOL But while we have sumbody from Iraq with opinions I'd like to axe him the question again...because 1. Fightnight didn't answer it the first time I axed and 2. It seems like da solution to fightnight's problem wit America. So Fightnight, lemme axe you agin. The Iraqi people don't want Americans in Iraq. I'm sure it goes farther than Americans since it's a religious thing but anywho, here be da question one mo time. If the solution to your problem is to be self sufficient..why is it taking so long for Iraq to become self-sufficient? You guys isn't gonna tear da crap outta each other if we leave...are ya? :o

Who cares if they do????????? Not me!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Infact if you put something like that on payperview, Id throw in some money to see it.
In fact if there is a war in Iran, all of you can split up my portfolio, Imma re-up........

[Gonz]

and from what I know the majority of the citizens too,

You, my friend, need to stay away from Fox News. Iranians held the first spontaneous candlelight vigils for the victims of 9/11, hours after it happened.

You made mention of "The Dark Ages" in your post so I'll let you in on a little fact. The Crusades were a direct retaliation of Islam's conquests. Islam was "founded" in the 7th Century and not 50 years later in the year 711 it had murderously spread across Northern Africa in the Moorish invasion of the Spanish Peninsula.

I don't know what passes for "fact" in your history classes, but that is the most twisted, misrepresented version of history I've ever read.

But anyway, that was 1300 years ago. In the meantime, Christian armies haven't exactly acquitted themselves with honor. Just ask an American Indian, or an Australian Aborigine...if you can find one.

[fightknight]

For da fokes who think da mawkets started selling off today because of the topic of this discussion....please....GET A CLUE! LOL But while we have sumbody from Iraq with opinions I'd like to axe him the question again...because 1. Fightnight didn't answer it the first time I axed and 2. It seems like da solution to fightnight's problem wit America. So Fightnight, lemme axe you agin. The Iraqi people don't want Americans in Iraq. I'm sure it goes farther than Americans since it's a religious thing but anywho, here be da question one mo time. If the solution to your problem is to be self sufficient..why is it taking so long for Iraq to become self-sufficient? You guys isn't gonna tear da crap outta each other if we leave...are ya? :o
I don't have a problem with American people, only their government; surely, US does make me money:). Those militant groups arrived in Iraq as soon as Saddam's regime was toppled. This is because the borders opened up. No one really knows who they are ( mostly from syria). Before the war this sort of thing never happened in Iraq. And as being self-sufficient, Iraq has been under dictator rule for over 30 years If im not mistaken. Any country that has been ruled by a dictator and all of a sudden becomes "free" will goes into chaos. It will take time for Iraq to rebuild itself. There is about $4 trillion of oil in there. I honestly don't care if US takes most of our oil; as long as it helps Iraq rebuild properly and erradicate the damages it inflicted on the nation. If US government smarts up they will close the Iraqi border.

[BOOOYAHOOO!]

I don't have a problem with American people, only their government; surely, US does make me money:). Those militant groups arrived in Iraq as soon as Saddam's regime was toppled. This is because the borders opened up. No one really knows who they are ( mostly from syria). Before the war this sort of thing never happened in Iraq. And as being self-sufficient, Iraq has been under dictator rule for over 30 years If im not mistaken. Any country that has been ruled by a dictator and all of a sudden becomes "free" will goes into chaos. It will take time for Iraq to rebuild itself. There is about $4 trillion of oil in there. I honestly don't care if US takes most of our oil; as long as it helps Iraq rebuild properly and erradicate the damages it inflicted on the nation. If US government smarts up they will close the Iraqi border.

OK, thanks fo the answer. I was wondering what the big holdup is over there. To me it doesn't seem like the Iraqi people are all that anxious to secure themselves and I was thinkin it is because of fear of what may happen if the allied forces left. When you said the U.S. gov't should secure the border...did you mean the Mexican border? Ummmm, I'm sure we would but I think we are outta cash and about to piss off da Chinese! LOL

[bludevil007]

Again, with all due respect, can you tell me when Christians slaughtered other people or bomb or killed in the name of God in the modern world? I'm not talking back in the dark ages. I mean recently. As a religious group too, not some fanatic bombing an abortion clinic. As far as I know, we Christians are a religion of peace. Just read our Ten Commandments and tell me where does it say to kill in the name of God? Where does it say in our Bible to kill anyone that is not Christian? No disrespect to other religions, but Christianity is not a fad religion or a fanatical, militant religion. I am a proud Catholic and I get offended when we are metioned in the same breath with radical extremist.

May the Lord be with you........

The Guru has spoken


Guru, you know i respect both you and your religious conviction, but i must say that christians have been equally brutal throughout recorded history. While most of the atrocities committed by Christians, and particularly Catholics (the religion i was born into), occurred during the "dark ages," those ages werent that long ago. Just to list, we have (1) the crusades and inquisition, (2) the destruction of the indigenous populations of the new world, (3) slavery in the Americas (committed primarily by protestants), (4) the holocaust (committed by christians who joined the nazi ranks - i admit the nazis claimed atheism, but you cant say the same for the population that sat idly by while it happened, nor the pope, who turned a blind eye to the whole thing), (5) the serbian persecution of the bosnian muslims, (6) tim mcveigh, (7) abortion clinic bombers - i mean the list goes on and on and on. Point is this - every religion has its freaks. EVERY religion has its fundamentalists. Those idiots who bomb abortion clinics are just like the idiots who took out the WTC. Both are reprehensible.


Anyways, to the whole group: While each of us has his or her own religious philosophy (i really dont adhere to any particular faith), i think its accurate to say that all of the "major" religions preach peace and have at their core some similar tenets. devout muslims will tell you that jihadists are misinterpreting the Q'ran. And even though there are sections that may be interpreted to call for violence, remember that the Christian/Jewish god of the old testament was an angry god who was merciless in his persecution of his "enemies." Christians and Jews have now come to accept a more peaceful image of god, and muslims have done the same. Like someone already said, dont hate on the whole group because of a few bad apples.

the death toll in iraq hit 2,400 american troops today, and countless iraqis.

ps. Doesnt anydody think its a little too early to have a movie about 9/11?

[Robert L]

Haha, look at this mess we started. EVenone is racist, everyone has opinons when the doors close, I just don't choose to back away from mine, I'll tell you what I feel, not "look around first" before I tell the story, I don't care, it's my whole point but your obviously missing it. The world world feels this way, everyone carries hatred inside them, it's something that has been this way since the beginning of time. EVERY SINGLE PERSON READING THIS has passed judgement on another race, at some point in thier life. and the first person to say "OH NO NOT ME" is the biggest bigot on the board.

Rob

[InvestingMoron]

bluedevil007......you should have 6 items listed.

#4 never happened.

[fightknight]

Haha, look at this mess we started. EVenone is racist, everyone has opinons when the doors close, I just don't choose to back away from mine, I'll tell you what I feel, not "look around first" before I tell the story, I don't care, it's my whole point but your obviously missing it. The world world feels this way, everyone carries hatred inside them, it's something that has been this way since the beginning of time. EVERY SINGLE PERSON READING THIS has passed judgement on another race, at some point in thier life. and the first person to say "OH NO NOT ME" is the biggest bigot on the board.

Rob
But you are the biggest bigot here by far. IMO

[Thierry Martin]

Sell! Sell! Sell!

[Damon]

ok... the parents shouldn't have put the baby on an raw food diet, but why are they facing up to 50 years in prison? the defense says the baby died of a rare birth defect and the kids have all testified and seem fine. the prosecution is now bringing up the fact that the kids were beaten by a belt, but the kids told the child protection agency that they only got hit once on the leg if they were in trouble. that hardly sounds like abuse to me but simply discipline. it's unfortunate the baby died, for whatever reasons, but i believe these parents did not knowingly put their children/baby in dangerous health. the raw food diet is expensive, complicated and needs dedication. parents who want to kill their children do not follow this diet but simply STARVE their kids. i am torn by the fact that they didn't put their baby on formula and instead fed her wheat grass and almond milk. the other children were fed 3 times a day with snacks. i think these parents should NOT go to jail for 50 years and instead be ordered to put their children on a "normal" diet until they are an adult (because there is still controversy in regards to the raw food diet). i believe these parents have a way of life and a way of living for their own reasons (be it health, religion, whatever) and they did not purposely harm their children.

i do not agree with the raw food diet being a childs diet because they are still developing, but these parents do not seem like malicious monsters.

[Will]

No disrespect to other religions, but Christianity is not a fad religion or a fanatical, militant religion. I am a proud Catholic and I get offended when we are metioned in the same breath with radical extremist.
The Guru has spoken

I would consider Pat Robertson a radical extremist.
Granted he is not Catholic, or even Christian for that matter, but he calls himself such.

The point is that there are extremists in every religion that usually make the religion as a whole look bad.

Imagine though for a moment, what would happen if the most powerful Iraqi cleric called for the assassination of Bush?

I have reason to believe he would be treated a little bit differently than Pat Robertson got treated after he called for Hugo Chavez's assassination.

PHUCK WAR!

[madcowdisease]

and from what I know the majority of the citizens too,

You, my friend, need to stay away from Fox News. Iranians held the first spontaneous candlelight vigils for the victims of 9/11, hours after it happened.

I don't watch Faux News but that, my friend, came from National Geographic among other sources. I'd hardly consider them a right wing organization if that is what you're implying.

You made mention of "The Dark Ages" in your post so I'll let you in on a little fact. The Crusades were a direct retaliation of Islam's conquests. Islam was "founded" in the 7th Century and not 50 years later in the year 711 it had murderously spread across Northern Africa in the Moorish invasion of the Spanish Peninsula.

I don't know what passes for "fact" in your history classes, but that is the most twisted, misrepresented version of history I've ever read.

But anyway, that was 1300 years ago. In the meantime, Christian armies haven't exactly acquitted themselves with honor. Just ask an American Indian, or an Australian Aborigine...if you can find one.

What? Because the above doesn't fit your deprecating, anti-Western views it's wrong? If you must know this info came from an accredited, major state university, the kind foreigners all over the world are flocking to (yes, the best education available in the world is an American university). Right from the start Islam was a violent religion. Again, in less than 100 years after its inception Islam had spread from Arabia, across Northern Africa, and was murderously knocking on Spain's door in the Moorish invasion of 711. Choose to believe everything Western is despicable if you want but the proof is on the pudding. Look at many of the architectural attributes of Spain and in the New World that they passed on after they overthrew the Moorish occupation in 1492. This is just a single example. It did happen despite what Air America, Jerry Springer, Al Franken, and Dan Rather would have you believe :)

Look, I'm not fond of any religion in particular but you can't deny that Islam, the so-called religion of peace, is anything but what it claims. Don't quote me on this but aren't there some 14 major conflicts around the world where Muslims can't get along with their neighbors? Anyone else notice a pattern?

[TheChartGuru]

The name "Tim McVeigh" ring any bells?

If Tim McVeigh killed in the name of God, that is one person. A fanatic. I want to know where Christians as a whole have gone out and slaughtered or killed in the name of God in the modern world.

The Guru has spoken

[Will]

the death toll in iraq hit 2,400 american troops today, and countless iraqis.

ps. Doesnt anydody think its a little too early to have a movie about 9/11?

At least 34,030 Iraqis have been killed since the war, according to http://www.iraqbodycount.net/

And when you consider America's wounded, 17,269, and America's deaths, 2,359, since the war began, the total American casualties come to 19,628.

p.s. I think if not too early, it is definitely, in poor taste to turn a buck off the 9/11 tragedy.

[TheChartGuru]

Sell! Sell! Sell!


Thierry, you are off topic line! LOL

The Guru has spoken

[Pierre]

Geez.... I took my family out to dinner and look what I've missed.... ok, ok,ok
I won't vote for Nader in 08...
So much passion tonight, makes me want to become a Quaker!

Tell ya what, being a former associate pastor of a small Christian church, none of ya's can't even begin to imagine the things I've seen people do and say...passing judgement... the human race is so far past that stage, that God must be in tears from laughter... which is the point, WE 'RE ONLY HUMAN.. get over it... move on...
My take... the key to life... what God really wants or Allah or Buddah or whoever... DO YOUR VERY BEST WITH THE GIFTS YOU HAVE BEEN GIVEN!
You only get one life... make it count... GOD will sort it out!

You want Philosophy... I can go all night, but that's anudder story...
Now, what's tomorrow's play...

[madcowdisease]

If Tim McVeigh killed in the name of God, that is one person. A fanatic. I want to know where Christians as a whole have gone out and slaughtered or killed in the name of God in the modern world.

The Guru has spoken

I don't know if this counts but maybe the Salem Witch Trials. But by stipulating "modern" I'm assuming you mean post-WW2. In that case I don't know. I do know The Bible, or rather The New Testament, does not warrant violence which can't be said for The Koran.

It is more than just religion at fault here. It is the fact the Middle East operates on an entirely different set of ethos than the West due to the fact Islam permeates throughout their culture. Oppression is standard. Women are property and treated as sub-human (anyone heard about the mutilation of women's genitals?). We wouldn't even treat our pets as bad as women are treated in Arabia. You can say whatever you want about ethnocentrism but on a sheer human rights level the Middle East is not up to par.

I don't care how much of a moral relativist you are you have to admit that the Middle East if effed up in this department.

[Gonz]

What? Because the above doesn't fit your deprecating, anti-Western views it's wrong? If you must know this info came from an accredited, major state university, the kind foreigners all over the world are flocking to (yes, the best education available in the world is an American university). Right from the start Islam was a violent religion. Again, in less than 100 years after its inception Islam had spread from Arabia, across Northern Africa, and was murderously knocking on Spain's door in the Moorish invasion of 711. Choose to believe everything Western is despicable if you want but the proof is on the pudding. Look at many of the architectural attributes of Spain and in the New World that they passed on after they overthrew the Moorish occupation in 1492. This is just a single example. It did happen despite what Air America, Jerry Springer, Al Franken, and Dan Rather would have you believe

My views on this particular part of your argument aren't political. I've published articles in medieval studies. I could go into the history of the Moorish invasions and the Crusades, but I don't think Thierry has enough bandwidth. You'll just have to trust me when I tell you that you have radically...and I mean radically...oversimplified this.

If Tim McVeigh killed in the name of God, that is one person. A fanatic. I want to know where Christians as a whole have gone out and slaughtered or killed in the name of God in the modern world.

What is the statistical difference between one man and nineteen men when set against the veritable millions--and in the case of Islam, one billion--of people who comprise their society? Why do the 9/11 hijackers represent their religion, while McVeigh does not?

And to say that McVeigh was one man acting alone strikes me as pretty naive. The ideological framework, the training, the logistical support, not to mention the accomplices, participated in Oklahoma City. Take a gander at white supremacist Christian websites. Take a look at the National Alliance home page. Sure, they're not mainstream, but by most counts they boast at least hundreds of thousands of members, and pretty much every one of them consider McVeigh a hero.

We call McVeigh a "fanatic" because he's one of us. Apparently we don't know enough of "them" to make the distinction.

[InvestingMoron]

Quote from someone:
blah blah blah Moorish invasion of Spain in 711.......end quote

Sooooo, that's where the whole damn 7-11 thing comes from. The year. The convenience store. It all comes together now.

BOMB ISRAEL

[bludevil007]

I don't know if this counts but maybe the Salem Witch Trials. But by stipulating "modern" I'm assuming you mean post-WW2. In that case I don't know. I do know The Bible, or rather The New Testament, does not warrant violence which can't be said for The Koran.

It is more than just religion at fault here. It is the fact the Middle East operates on an entirely different set of ethos than the West due to the fact Islam permeates throughout their culture. Oppression is standard. Women are property and treated as sub-human (anyone heard about the mutilation of women's genitals?). We wouldn't even treat our pets as bad as women are treated in Arabia. You can say whatever you want about ethnocentrism but on a sheer human rights level the Middle East is not up to par.

I don't care how much of a moral relativist you are you have to admit that the Middle East if effed up in this department.


agree totally madcow, but i'd say there are some similarities between islam and the judeochristian tradition in this area. For example, my roommate recently told me that the morning prayers for orthodox jewish men (he was born and raised in orthodoxy but has since "left the faith") go something along the lines of "thank you lord for making me a man and not a woman." Women are also treated as inferiors. Even Christianity does this by preventing women from joining the priesthood (well, at least Catholics - i cant really speak for others). these are remnants of a time when jews and christians acted similarly.

[NATHAN LLOYD]

OH phuck religion & phuck war. We're not animals anymore. We shouldn't kill each other like animals. What in the hell were American troops doing stacking naked Iraqis up naked in prison and taking pictures of this debacle for? Then they posted these on the internet. How brilliant!

The problem is that we evoved from some type of animal, and some of us just haven't evolved enough. The US has enough problems without going abroad starting shet that we can't finish. We're so arrogant that we think we can solve the world's problems that have been around 1000's of years.

There is a problem with oppression of the ignorant, and any religion has been guilty of this. I need to reiterate that some of us just haven't evolved enough to keep up with the human race.

The walfare system needs to be revamped. The US is still supporting these subpar humans through welfare. I'm not suggesting to be inhumane, but we shouldn't encourage their reproduction. :)

[NATHAN LLOYD]

Education is the key to take over this oppression not war.

We've really gotten carried away here. I had to vent again. I should have called this the vent thread.

[Gonz]

I don't know, I don't see this as having gone overboard...not all of it, anyway. I could have done without the homophobic and the racist comments in some of the initial posts, and I bristle when people say that disagreeing with Bush is tantamount to "despising all things Western". But I do think that open debate in public forums, without any fear of retribution, is one of the more valuable forms of education. Our right to do that is one of the things that makes this country great. I've become alarmed by the political polarization in this country, which is getting to the point where dissent is now (a little less so now than a couple years ago) considered unpatriotic. Things have changed quite a bit in the last five years. Just after 9/11, Bush said, "We are in a fight for our principles, and our first duty is to live by them." I loved him for those words. But two years later, I come to find that the FBI is allowed to rifle through my library records and listen in on my phone calls. As far as I'm concerned, an America that doesn't allow its citizenry to disagree with power isn't worth defending. Thankfully it hasn't come to that. Yet.

One of the things I didn't mention is that although there were nationwide spontaneous candlelight vigils in Iran for the victims of 9/11 was that a great many of those holding the vigils were beaten senseless by the Iranian religious police. I'm really thankful I don't have to live there.

What we need more than anything is a comprehensive and equitable and achievable peace plan for the Middle East. That's the silver bullet. As long as Middle Eastern dictators can deflect criticism of themselves onto the U.S.'s Israel/Palestine policy, we're going to get exactly nowhere. But what we've yet to realize is that short of genocide, you can't defeat a people with nothing to lose but their lives. And right now, that's the case in Palestine. Let's give them something to lose. Let's give them an Ikea plant and a Nike factory, let's give them cable television and air conditioning and good coffee and affordable access to the internet. The impoverished and disenfranchised start revolutions to effect political change. Robust middle classes, on the other hand, go to the polls.

If we can get to the point where we can consistently show images of Palestinians enjoying their lives rather than being felt up (or shot) by soldiers at checkpoints, that will do infinitely more than all the military hardware in the world to improve our position. We keep going on about bringing democracy to the Middle East. If we can manage that once, just once (without killing a bunch of people), all the other dominoes will fall.

[TheChartGuru]

Geez.... I took my family out to dinner and look what I've missed.... ok, ok,ok
I won't vote for Nader in 08...
So much passion tonight, makes me want to become a Quaker!

Tell ya what, being a former associate pastor of a small Christian church, none of ya's can't even begin to imagine the things I've seen people do and say...passing judgement... the human race is so far past that stage, that God must be in tears from laughter... which is the point, WE 'RE ONLY HUMAN.. get over it... move on...
My take... the key to life... what God really wants or Allah or Buddah or whoever... DO YOUR VERY BEST WITH THE GIFTS YOU HAVE BEEN GIVEN!
You only get one life... make it count... GOD will sort it out!

You want Philosophy... I can go all night, but that's anudder story...
Now, what's tomorrow's play...

I disagree with your one life comment. Our life on earth ends, but those of us that believe in God through Jesus Christ will live for ever. :)
As fasr as today's play, I really wanted to short BDCO yesterday but IB didn't allow me. This morning is down .45! Darn it. Also, I"m watching RHEO. It has been beat up and I think it will finally begin to move up today. God bless you pastor

The Guru has spoken

[Pierre]

Hey TCG, I had a real good sleep last night, out like a light, all my kids are here with us for spring break, my grand kids are doing well, my son in law is on his way... I'm watching my legacy, live their lives, right before my eyes... I've given & sacrificed so much, and not always, but sometimes, I think I see the results of those sacrifices in my kids eyes... Have I done enough, did I do too much, am I done... the reality is I have no clue, only God knows... it's taken a whole lifetime for me to realize that God is God and I ain't him, so we go out and do our best with the life we've been given... my report card arrives when my life is over...that, my Brother Frank, is the one life I'm talkin about...
One more thing... I done a lot of bad things too wit me life, many, many regrets, Lord knows I ain't no angel... only human...

Now, let's trade, I smell money today...

[stockviper]

Nader? I would have loved to see what Ross Perot could have done given the chance.

[InvestingMoron]

Ross Perot. Yeah, another Texas billionaire is just what we need.

[Robert L]

I would like to clarify something for some people on here who can't deal with the types of comments that were made on this thread.

I grew up in Miami, FL. I spent most of my time in public schools in special programs for the "gifted". I say this not to brag, but to bring up something that you are probably not aware of.

As a "gifted" child, all the programs were brought into the inner city to provide more federal and state funding for the school, as we were provided more funding than normal children. As a result of this, I experienced racism first hand, every day of my life, I learned what it was to be a "stupid white boy, or a stupid cracker, or a this and that".

The point of this is, racism exists everywhere, and personally I don't care if you can't deal with the comments, nothing will change how I feel, and for the beginning of my life, I Was definately 100% a racist. But as time went on I learned more about different people, and more about life in general and found out that not all people are bad.

It comes down to education, it comes down to what you learn in your home, what you learn in your community, and frankly I'm a little tired of hearing about the white man being the devil. So you can hate me if you want, I know what it's like to be hated, I've grown up with it and I watch it first hand. I live in an area of the United States, where there are about 5% Caucasian people living here now. My step-mother was from Cuba, and I have seen just about every nationality in the enitre world. I speak Spanish fluently, and I also speak "yo what up dawg" though I never use that language. But at a point in my life I did, just to survive.

I have no sympathy for people because they have no sympathy for me, I watched people with sub-standard grades get full-scholorships to schools just because they were "_____". You know what, if everyone is equal, lets start showing it then.

[Gonz]

So let me get this straight: your racism is acceptable because you're a...victim? How marvelously liberal of you.

Incidentally, I don't think anyone here said anything about the white man being the devil. Nor do I think anyone had anything to say about affirmative action. I didn't even know you were white until that post. What I do recall was a reference to "that faggot Kerry" and the suggestion that an Iraqi poster "go ride a donkey," followed by something about his worthless life. Even if I were to accept your premise, I doubt very seriously that any homosexuals, Massachusetts billionaires, or Iraqis were among those who so obviously traumatized you while you were at school.

Naturally you're entitled to your comments. The First Amendment protects racist speech, as it happens. But I for one plan on stocking up on duct tape and canned goods, because honestly, for that much ignorance and stupidity to be concentrated in a space as small as your post is very likely to rip a hole in the fabric of the universe.

[Robert L]

So let me get this straight: your racism is acceptable because you're a...victim? How marvelously liberal of you.

Incidentally, I don't think anyone here said anything about the white man being the devil. Nor do I think anyone had anything to say about affirmative action. I didn't even know you were white until that post. What I do recall was a reference to "that faggot Kerry" and the suggestion that an Iraqi poster "go ride a donkey," followed by something about his worthless life. Even if I were to accept your premise, I doubt very seriously that any homosexuals, Massachusetts billionaires, or Iraqis were among those who so obviously traumatized you while you were at school.

Naturally you're entitled to your comments. The First Amendment protects racist speech, as it happens. But I for one plan on stocking up on duct tape and canned goods, because honestly, for that much ignorance and stupidity to be concentrated in a space as small as your post is very likely to rip a hole in the fabric of the universe.

I guess that's what I'm saying. Whatever, I don't even read other peoples posts to be honest, I'm too self centerd. I'm just saying that I've been on both sides of the story, most people haven't. I accept this, I lived in the midwest for a while, told someone I was half Cuban, and they asked me "where my darkness was" it's a world full of ignorance, and I accept that, and if you dig on gay, then dig on gay, I Have an Uncle that's gay. I personally hate him, has nothing to do with him being gay, he's just a real a$$. I'm not homophobic, homophobic would imply that I have some sort of "fear" of homosexuals, that's not true. I just wish women liked me as much as gay guys do. I don't know what it is about me, but I am just god's gift to men, how ironic is that. I do'nt care what thier sexuality is, I would like to not have it shoved down my throat though, is that too much to ask? I find being hit on flatering, I find being pressured, very awful. I can understand women's disposition to pushy men. It's an awful place to be.

If you want to nit-pick everything about what I said, if it makes you feel good, then do it. Sometimes things don't need to be said, they are implied, and my refrences to those particular subjects come from things that have happend in my personal life experience, not exactaly what was said on this board. I was trying to let you understand a bit about me, but if you don't want to you don't have to. Have a nice day, hope your stocks soar.

[InvestingMoron]

Let's talk about true stupidity:

1) People who constantly bash France. Do they understand that Germany is in the same position as France, and Britain is close behind them? The French are, in some ways, decades ahead of the US. Nuclear power is one of those areas. I hold dual citizenship (France-US) so imagine the BS I had to go thru when I was on the USS *SSBN* and had to go thru people mocking the French on a regular basis. Shortly afterwards, it was noted that I had significant problems getting along with others. Of course I did...the ignorant crewmembers and captain promoted relegating my culture!

2) The US protecting Israel. This is what's going to lead to our demise. Let the Israelis reap what they sow. By promoting terrorism thru state-sponsored rallies against Palestinians and other Arabs, the Israelis have polarized the Middle East and pretty much the world. Want a quick view of WW3? US/Britain/Israel vs Iran/Korea/China/Russia. Now, if the US let Israel get what they deserve, war with Iran would not be such a hot topic these days. I will say the following in all caps, because it must be said. ISRAEL WANTS TO GO TO WAR WITH IRAN SO THAT THE US WILL BE DRUG INTO A REGIONAL CONFLICT AND DESTROY IRAN. Something that the US should have NO involvement in. Kiss your soldiers goodbye (including myself, I am active duty military in the US).

3) Affirmative Action. Give me a break. This is the most racist act I have ever seen. So much for "the best man gets the job". So much for "quality over quantity". So much for "Made in the USA". So much for "equal opportunity".

Yep, you guys guessed it. I'm a pissed-off middle class White man.

[Robert L]

So let me get this straight: your racism is acceptable because you're a...victim? How marvelously liberal of you.

Incidentally, I don't think anyone here said anything about the white man being the devil. Nor do I think anyone had anything to say about affirmative action. I didn't even know you were white until that post. What I do recall was a reference to "that faggot Kerry" and the suggestion that an Iraqi poster "go ride a donkey," followed by something about his worthless life. Even if I were to accept your premise, I doubt very seriously that any homosexuals, Massachusetts billionaires, or Iraqis were among those who so obviously traumatized you while you were at school.

Naturally you're entitled to your comments. The First Amendment protects racist speech, as it happens. But I for one plan on stocking up on duct tape and canned goods, because honestly, for that much ignorance and stupidity to be concentrated in a space as small as your post is very likely to rip a hole in the fabric of the universe.

I made the reference to Kerry more to imply that he's "soft" and we don't need a "soft" president. We want someone with the strength and conviction to stand by his words, and I don't think that man had it, I think if you pushed him he might go cry to mommy. Sometimes you need to step away from specific langauge, and try to get a grasp on what the overall concept of the material is. But obviously I hit a sore-spot in there somewhere and you lost your focus.

:lol:

[NATHAN LLOYD]

Investing Moron:

I thought you were racist or something. I don't know but I liked your last post. We need to stay the f**k out of Iran. We need to f**k oil, and take care or our US of A. We're not defenders of the world. We shoud take care of ourselves first. Bush might have brass balls when it comes to diplomacy, but I think some of those brass balls might be in his brain as well.

I've been preaching that we need nuclear power plants. Why do we have to be dependant on the middle east? The french is exporting electricity. We have the ability to make electric cars fast. They're also quiet and pollution free.

Solar is another really good option. Wind is also good. Some people complain about windmills making a landscape look crappy, but what about our air looking smoggy?

[wallnut]

Nathan,
check out Energyandcapital.com

[SWFseeksM4LTR]

makes me want to become a Quaker!



What does that mean?

:?:

[SWFseeksM4LTR]

Sooooo, that's where the whole damn 7-11 thing comes from. The year. The convenience store. It all comes together now.



The 7-11 where I live is open 24 hours a day. They need to change their name now...times are a changin.

:p

[NATHAN LLOYD]

I've thought about windmills in the ocean, but never thought it would be cost feasible. That storry on Scottish windmills in the ocean on that sight is intriguing.

I would love to see GM make some motorcycles that were totally electric. Why haven't the American car companies tried to be inventive? I don't understand.

[wallnut]

I don't get it either. It's kinda like a company I used to work for, take what is rational and do the exact opposite.
IMO its gonna change, it has to! Whole foods runs entirely on solar and wind!! Seems to me people are starting to wise up. There has been some experimentation with USA cars just not as much progress as overseas company's. I think Everybody is waiting to see what everybody else is going to do.
Who knows, maybe the threat of bankruptcy will wake someone up at GM or F and push them into progression.

Let us hope anyhow, because when it comes to the world on a chart, I'm shorting..

[Robert L]

I don't get it either. It's kinda like a company I used to work for, take what is rational and do the exact opposite.
IMO its gonna change, it has to! Whole foods runs entirely on solar and wind!! Seems to me people are starting to wise up. There has been some experimentation with USA cars just not as much progress as overseas company's. I think Everybody is waiting to see what everybody else is going to do.
Who knows, maybe the threat of bankruptcy will wake someone up at GM or F and push them into progression.

Let us hope anyhow, because when it comes to the world on a chart, I'm shorting..

FYI, I would like you guys to know this.

The carburator (spelling?) that allows the gasoline combustion engine to get 50 miles to the gallon, was developed almost 25 years ago, the patent was bought, and put in a drawer.

There have been HUNDREDS, I mean HUNDREDS of technological advancements in the cumbstion engine, everything from cars that get 40-50 gallons on Alcohol, and the list goes on and on and on, the patents get bought up, and they go in a filing cabinet, it's a catch 22, either a car company buys them, or an oil company buys them, and they are filed away because of how much money they would lose if they actually hit the street, it's down right pitiful.

I know a man that works at NOVA University here, it's just simple guy, and he developed an engine about 15 years back, that runs on an Ethanol/Alcohol type deal that is actually made from those big elephant ear grass thingys that they plant between crops to renurish the ground for planting a food crop ( I have no idea what the plant name is). They payed him about 750,000 for the patent, and it was over, it's like that time and time again. It's a downright shame it is.

Rob

[Gonz]

The carburator (spelling?) that allows the gasoline combustion engine to get 50 miles to the gallon, was developed almost 25 years ago, the patent was bought, and put in a drawer.

This may have been posted elsewhere on the forums, but check this (http://www.treehugger.com/files/2005/09/philadelphia_hi.php) out.

As they say, if a bunch of high-school auto shop students can do this, why can't any of the major car companies? Their answer is, "They can...but they won't."

There's a video link at the bottom of the article.

[stockviper]

This may have been posted elsewhere on the forums, but check this (http://www.treehugger.com/files/2005/09/philadelphia_hi.php) out.

As they say, if a bunch of high-school auto shop students can do this, why can't any of the major car companies? Their answer is, "They can...but they won't."

There's a video link at the bottom of the article.

Hey Gonz. AMAZING!! I love the yellow ATTACK car.

If GM built something like that...hey, they could get rid of the union labor and have the kids build it for a small salary, subsidize the schools, hmmm.

If anybody, it would be Chrysler since they seem to be the only 1 of the big 3 with any sense of adventure. GM and Ford keep pumping out the same old crap!

[Gonz]

Yeah, I'd drive that beeyotch. Production costs (sans labor) only ran to $15,000, imagine how that could be reduced if it were mass-produced? You could run that off the line for $25k-$40k retail.

[TheChartGuru]

I heard yesterday that Fidel Castro wants to drill for oil, in the Gulf of Mexico, just 45 miles away from south Florida. Niceeeeeeeeeeee
Where are the liberal activist protestors?

The Guru has spoken

[NATHAN LLOYD]

Maybe we should quit the fed hikes and let the dollar value depreciate. Our exports would be cheaper and our imports would be more expensive. This would get back at China's yuan.


I'm still pissed at GM, Chrysler, and Ford. I feel that these guys could go bankrupt and still try to be selling the huge SUV gas guzzlers.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/usatoday/20060503/bs_usatoday/gaspricedentssalesofguzzlers

I can think like a Republican and keep investing in oil and shorting GM. I don't care about the middle class as long as I make money....LOL

[MoMoney4Me]

How are you ever going to reduce your dependance on foreign oil if you let environmentalists squash your efforts to drill a hole in the ground within the U.S. borders.
Foriegn nations are reaping the reward 50 miles off our coastline while we sit and cry about $3 a gallon gasoline.

Give me a freakin' break. Today's drillers with innovations and technologies can tap these resources without any major disturbance to the environment. For the most part Americans have become a bunch of politically correct pansy as*es that can't use reason or logic. We need to wake up and look out for our own needs and borders.

OK, that's my rant for the day !
Here's an article in reference to foreigners drilling for oil off our coasts.
http://newsmax.com/archives/ic/2006/4/27/224539.shtml?s=ic

[MoMoney4Me]

I can think like a Republican and keep investing in oil and shorting GM. I don't care about the middle class as long as I make money....LOL

Amen, and God Bless America !!

I sold enough shares of SLB and BTU last month to take the profits I've made, and went out and bought a brand new Nissan Armada LE. That thing gets a whopping 14 miles a gallon and I'm thrilled.

I'm a working middle class, but my investments in energy, materials, and technolgy are making me wealthy. I cull more profits from my stock trades each year than I bring home on my weekly paycheck.

Capitalism is a wonderful thing. Who cares if gas goes to $5 a gallon. I'll let the oil companies pay the bill for me ! :lol:

[madcowdisease]

Who cares if gas goes to $5 a gallon. :lol:

I do.

[NATHAN LLOYD]

I was being a smart as* about thinking like a Republican. LOL

I'm glad you're making money though.
It's pretty funny that you didn't buy an American car.

I'll say it again.

PHUCK OIL! PHUCK IRAN! PHUCK THE WHOLE MIDDLE EAST!

Let's go nuclear and electric. Then we will quit paying for cities to be built like Abu Dabi and Dubai, which have some really expensive buildings that were constructed via our oil dependence.

[Leb]

Dubai's wealth isnt solely due to oil.. as a matter of fact out of the Gulf countries, they probably have some of the smallest reserves.. saudi arabia has sooooo much oil yet their cities are not even nearly as advanced as dubai.. the difference in this case is that Dubai has relied on foreign investments to make a lot of money.. they made some money from oil and were smart enough to reinvest it in europe and the US to make billions more... if you think that the people running Dubai are a bunch of ignorant arabs who solely rely on oil, then you are completely mistaken... all u need to do is take a look at some of the largest western companies and youll find that the emirates owns big stakes in them..

[Gonz]

Where is your God now, Mr. President??? (http://www.upi.com/NewsTrack/view.php?StoryID=20060426-114223-5447r)

Seriously. Praying for money. I think there are a few people out there who need to go back and thumb through their Bibles for a while.

[NATHAN LLOYD]

I studied the UAE because my mom married someone from there, and she lived there for a year. Two years ago, when oil was cheaper, they had enough exporting surplus just from oil to give every citizen 3 million USD's per year. Leb, you tell me they don't have enough oil to build 2 nice cities. You don't know what you're talking about!

No, I don't think they're a bunch of idiot Arabs. My stepdad is one. They also made a lot of nice buildings from oil, and they used these buildings to attract tourists.

[aiki14]

They also made a lot of nice buildings from oil, and they used these buildings to attract tourists.

Floors must have been really slippery.

[madcowdisease]

Where is your God now, Mr. President??? (http://www.upi.com/NewsTrack/view.php?StoryID=20060426-114223-5447r)

Seriously. Praying for money. I think there are a few people out there who need to go back and thumb through their Bibles for a while.

:lol: LOL

I just don't think he really gives a f***. Gas prices? C'mon. :roll:

[MoMoney4Me]

It's pretty funny that you didn't buy an American car.

I've been a Teamster for 30 years, and can't say it's done anything for me.
I like to buy American whenever possible, but when you go to the lots, read the consumer reports, compare prices and value, American automakers don't stand a snowballs chance in Hell of getting my hard earned dollars. There have been massive improvements in American made quality, but that are still miles behind imports for quality and resale value.
I sold my old Ford Probe and bought a Volkswagon New Beetle. I sold my Pontiac Grand Prix last month and bought a Nissan Armada LE.
By far the quality and ride in the imports are better than anything American I ever owned.
Damned crying shame ain't it ?