How much needed to attempt day trading?

[soundlanguage]

Curious to know readers opnions/inside knowledge of what the average would be needed to "dabble" (for lack of a better word) in day trading- or every other day. I've always been interested but only recently came into "extra" money which i feel can be used in this way(well aware of the risk). Part 2 of the question is:

When flipping stock/s how much is worth starting with, for say a $15 range per share. An increase of a modest .20 or so is enough to make a few hundred wihin hours if i'm working with $15,000+. Doing this repeatedly may amount to modest gains but hogs vital resources (time, energy, money)

But is this how professional traders start? Ive done research, heard stories and such yet i still find it doesnt seem enough for a steady income if you're starting with so little to invest. Overall I see pulling in a mere $30-50 K anually at best assuming all this income is tied up/reinvested. Few have time to scrutinize the market to trade daily while attention if focused on their "real" day job. Makes me nearly assume it's for the hope of better future earnings, or they're slightly passive/play it safe traders not that "hungry" money wise but saticfied with 5 figure income, or some are driven by the thrill. Opinions, insights?

Thanks

[zyzzyva57]

Trying to cash in on the stock market jiggles seems to me insane. I would first subscribe to one of the streets newsletters Cramer owns. It is here you get updates on stocks Cramer throws out. For example, he may like a stock today, but tomorrow he does not--but if no one asks about the stock you will not know about his change of opinion. What Cramer presents is the tip of his ice berg. You really have to buy one of the street's services fully to utilize his opinions. In my case, I subscribe to the Under $10 stock newsletter. I am a trader not an investor, which I let a mutual fund handle. Free stuff is nice but it is too available. Oh, learn about safety nets of the brocker you use. I use Scottrade, where I set up trip wires on a stock to sell, so I won't hold a falling knife, but still allow me a ride up without being a hog. If my trip wire fires too quickly, I rather buy back in than be a fool riding a stock down, hoping.

[Luc1Grunt]

Sound......your simple question would deserve a very complicated answer. Day trading, swing trading, position trading. If you are after income....I don't think a post to a thread will do you any justice. Some on this site are splitting between 10k and 50k on 3-10 stocks at a time, but that takes serious money management and discipline. Even then, realistically speaking, maybe you have 60% winners at 10% gain and 40% losers at, say an 8% loss. Do the math.

Maybe some reading?

Larry Williams:
"Lomg Term Secrets to Short-Term Trading"

Toni Turner:

"A beginners guide to short term trading"
"A beginners guide to day trading"

There are many more out there.

Read The Chart Guru's post on "making a million dollars" and the thought process behind it.

Trade well, Luc

[madcowdisease]

Curious to know readers opnions/inside knowledge of what the average would be needed to "dabble" (for lack of a better word) in day trading- or every other day. I've always been interested but only recently came into "extra" money which i feel can be used in this way(well aware of the risk). Part 2 of the question is:

When flipping stock/s how much is worth starting with, for say a $15 range per share. An increase of a modest .20 or so is enough to make a few hundred wihin hours if i'm working with $15,000+. Doing this repeatedly may amount to modest gains but hogs vital resources (time, energy, money)

But is this how professional traders start? Ive done research, heard stories and such yet i still find it doesnt seem enough for a steady income if you're starting with so little to invest. Overall I see pulling in a mere $30-50 K anually at best assuming all this income is tied up/reinvested. Few have time to scrutinize the market to trade daily while attention if focused on their "real" day job. Makes me nearly assume it's for the hope of better future earnings, or they're slightly passive/play it safe traders not that "hungry" money wise but saticfied with 5 figure income, or some are driven by the thrill. Opinions, insights?

Thanks

I may be imagining this but memory tells me that at least with Scottrade, though it may be a federal statute, in order to actually day trade you need an account of $25,000. Sure you can get away with a few intra-day trades with less than that but there is a limit to how many you can do without being tagged a "daytrader". If this information is correct i think it is pretty explicit at answering your question.

[soundlanguage]

Trying to cash in on the stock market jiggles seems to me insane. I would first subscribe to one of the streets newsletters Cramer owns. It is here you get updates on stocks Cramer throws out. For example, he may like a stock today, but tomorrow he does not--but if no one asks about the stock you will not know about his change of opinion. What Cramer presents is the tip of his ice berg. In my case, I subscribe to the Under $10 stock newsletter. Oh, learn about safety nets of the brocker you use. I use Scottrade...


Thanks for the words zyzzyva57, everyones input is appreciated. I should have rephrased my post, splitting into two parts so it's more coherant. Basically i'm definately not trading but a short term investor who's merely lightly dabbling. I do reading, research (the booyaa's newsletter may be next) when I can but dont take it seriously, but I wonder who does who's working with not 15K but 100K where the stakes are higher- how do they start out? I'm around traders/financial sector folks all day, some are cool calm collected whatever the market dishes but others, they're zombied out worried about ever tick up or down, pining over missed opportunities etc, most seem incredibly stressed and too young for such risks, after all this isnt a '99 market (as Cramer said yesterday where you could walk down the street and find money overflowing your pockets! ha) Real panic buyers/seller types.

Curious how younger day traders make a living trading FT though, how they're able to start out without having a bundle to invest for those short term rides. Dad's money maybe? Looking at it overly simplistically, I can't see how their income plus savings can cover paying off school loans, life's expenses and heavy trading. These hot shots appear to "win" enough to keep going so their success ratio must be 60% or better. The others we dont hear about, stories i'd like to hear first hand. I see a post Enron-era film in the works there... "ah the good old days" ...

[zyzzyva57]

I put aside $1,500 for "Mad Money." I like under $10 stocks, because I can buy a 100 shares or more in a GOOD under $10 stock. A GOOD $3 stock can easily go up a dollar. Equally, important, is advice on when to dump out of a stock.
I find thestreet's "Under $10 Stocks" an excellent resource to track Cramer. Again, he may really like a stock today and hate it tomorrow, but if a caller does not ask about that stock you will never know Cramer has changed direction. I think he culls many of his picks from one of his thestreet's newsletters that covers various areas of the stock market. Cramer's show is the tip of an iceberg, I am finding. His Best of Breed won't lose you money, but it won't make you any money unless you can buy a ton for a zillion dollars and hold forever. This is why I use a mutual fund for retirement. I have neither the money nor desire to get into a pissing contest with the Big Boys. Stock buying is a gamble, but I am learning how to stack the deck in my favor. This is my homework :)

[madcowdisease]

I put aside $1,500 for "Mad Money." I like under $10 stocks, because I can buy a 100 shares or more in a GOOD under $10 stock. A GOOD $3 stock can easily go up a dollar. Equally, important, is advice on when to dump out of a stock.
I find thestreet's "Under $10 Stocks" an excellent resource to track Cramer. Again, he may really like a stock today and hate it tomorrow, but if a caller does not ask about that stock you will never know Cramer has changed direction. I think he culls many of his picks from one of his thestreet's newsletters that covers various areas of the stock market. Cramer's show is the tip of an iceberg, I am finding. His Best of Breed won't lose you money, but it won't make you any money unless you can buy a ton for a zillion dollars and hold forever. This is why I use a mutual fund for retirement. I have neither the money nor desire to get into a pissing contest with the Big Boys. Stock buying is a gamble, but I am learning how to stack the deck in my favor. This is my homework :)

So you subscribe to the Stocks Under 10 Newsletter? I've given it a good hard consideration in the past. Isn't it 300-400 bucks a year? Not that is too much, but does it pay for itself if you have less than 5K?

Also, how often do they give you new picks? Are they good about culling the losers or do they hang on for dear life like Cramer does? Lastly, do you think it's worth the money? Meaning, has it paid for itself in your portfolio?

[zyzzyva57]

I am testing out the newsletter for a couple of months. I own one stock the newsletter likes (as does Cramer and Greenberg) "abxa" and one the newsletter along with Cramer likes (jdsu). In the present market, it is hard to judge things, because the market is all over the place--this sector up today/down tomorrow and another sector vice-versa. I do like the newsletter emails and then Friday summary. I like being told when it is a good time to fold or to hold. Something Cramer does not really do. In his book, he talks about holding and folding, but never really explains. P/E, EPS, and all the other metrics I guess is fine if you can spend 8-hours a day making educated guesses, but I see a company with great financials tank, and companies with lousy financials sail right along--for example, Krispy Kreme (kkd)--a stock Cramer hates to the point I expect him to have a stroke. In sum, if you use a no-thrill broker like Scottrade and you are not a professional, you need paid help. If you would like me to post my findings and $ucce$$ with the newsletter I will. I honestly believe Cramer culls most of his picks and dumps from his various newsletters. It is crucial thus to have timely information when he changes his mind--and you do not get this on his show without a caller asking. In short, for most of us who uses Cramer as a guru, he is not really free. He is the barker to get us in the tent. Cramer though is fun and I need his excitement after a day at the salt mine. However, he is what professional wrestling is to professional sports, or a kiss is from your sister.

[stockbroker]

Legally in the US you need atleast $25k to start daytrading.

[madcowdisease]

Legally in the US you need atleast $25k to start daytrading.

Exactly what I was referring to.

A fine example of our Big Nanny Government making sure we don't hurt ourselves. Afterall, they do know what's best for us.

[stockbroker]

Exactly what I was referring to.

A fine example of our Big Nanny Government making sure we don't hurt ourselves. Afterall, they do know what's best for us.

Yeah, the government is perfect.

They rescrict us from CFDs too. So much for a free market.

[madcowdisease]

Yeah, the government is perfect.

They rescrict us from CFDs too. So much for a free market.

CFD = Contract for Differences? If so can you explain these things? Advantage, disadvantage?

[stockbroker]

CFD = Contract for Differences? If so can you explain these things? Advantage, disadvantage?

Basically they are like options. Leverage is equal to forex trading, you can control 200 shares of MSFT stock for just the cost of 1 share. Most companies work like casinos and dont cover the trades, this is why they are illegal in the US.

[madcowdisease]

Basically they are like options. Leverage is equal to forex trading, you can control 200 shares of MSFT stock for just the cost of 1 share. Most companies work like casinos and dont cover the trades, this is why they are illegal in the US.

Ah jeez, you've opened up a new can of worms. Now I've got to look in to forex trading.