Marl vs. Aiki14 - Ultimate Stock Picking Challenge

[Keventerprises]

YAY AIKI !

:five:

Hi Firecracker,
Aiki's married. How you doin'? :flowers: :lol:

[Keventerprises]

Of course you wouldn't because if you lost your $100, then on Tues. morning, you would be starting the trading day at -100%.

So, you would have to gain 100%, just to break even from the 100% loss you took on Monday.

Next question?

If we each went in halves on a $20.00 item, and I gave you an extra $5.00, would you have paid half as much as I did? No, you paid $5 (25%) and I paid $15 (75%). I rest my case.

[netwrangler]

Yes, I needed help with my case, and I remembered Net had experience in that field and was calling on his expertise. Economics is a respectable field and I enjoy hearing and thinking about it.

With Respect,

KevinHey Kev,

Sorry I didn't understand what you were asking.

Economists [and I'm sure I speak for more than just myself] hate the ambiguity inherent in saying that going from a level of 100 to 150 is a 50% gain, but going from 150 to 100 is a 33 1/3% loss.

We hate it even more [well, at least oil company economists do] when newspaper reporters or politicians 'view with alarm' a 50% increase in income one year [from 100 to 150] and then 'heave a sign of relief' when a 50% decrease the following year [from 150 to 75] gets things back to 'normal'.

So economists have their own way of doing things. In a price elasticity calculation, for instance, let us suppose
P[1] = 100
P[2] = 150
Well, the difference is P[2] - P[1] or 50, but if you want to measure the percentage change what is the base?

That's no problem to an economist. The base is:
(P[1] + P[2]) / 2 or 125
The percent change is 40%, and that works going up or going down.

Of course this makes no sense to an investor or to a banker. It is stuff like this that lead to a proliferation of economist jokes. But that's all right, the economist is neither an investor nor a banker and could care less what they think.

By the way, Nobel Prize winning economist Kenneth Arrow, a Stanford man, won his prize for proving the intransitivity of group indifference curves. Now whether group indifference curves are transitive or intransitive may not have been a burning question in your mind. But let me give you a real world example that puts this proof in perspective.

What the proof means is that, with three football teams, it is perfectly possible for Team1 to beat Team2, Team2 to be Team3, and Team 3 to beat Team1, and have all of these outcomes be the expected result. Let me be clear here — there are no upsets in these results.

What this means is that efforts to structure a National Champion in college football are doomed. Kenneth Arrow's work proves that the efforts are doomed; and Arrow got a Nobel Prize for proving it. :dong:

Kev, I gotta say I'm not sure the Dismal Science is going to help you out here. I don't see the peanut getting pushed forward by some econometric model chock full of eigenvectors.

Now, if you want me to calculate whether a $15 tip is an appropriate percentage of the lunch tab you're picking up, no problem. But that's because I worked in restaurants for 10 years, not because I studied economics. :mrgreen:

[Keventerprises]

Hey Kev,

Sorry I didn't understand what you were asking.

Economists [and I'm sure I speak for more than just myself] hate the ambiguity inherent in saying that going from a level of 100 to 150 is a 50% gain, but going from 150 to 100 is a 33 1/3% loss.

We hate it even more [well, at least oil company economists do] when newspaper reporters or politicians 'view with alarm' a 50% increase in income one year [from 100 to 150] and then 'heave a sign of relief' when a 50% decrease the following year [from 150 to 75] gets things back to 'normal'.

So economists have their calculation, for instance, let us suppose
P[1] = 100
P[2] = 150
Well, the difference is P[2] - P[1] or 50, but if you want to measure the percentage change what is the base?

That's no problem to an economist. The base is:
(P[1] + P[2]) / 2 or 125
The percent change is 40%, and that works going up or going down.

Of course this makes no sense to an investor or to a banker. It is stuff like this that lead to a proliferation of economist jokes. But that's all right, the economist is neither an investor nor a banker and could care less what they think.

By the way, Nobel Prize winning economist Kenneth Arrow, a Stanford man, won his prize for proving the intransitivity of group indifference curves. Now whether group indifference curves are transitive or intransitive may not have been a burning question in your mind. But let me give you a real world example that puts this proof in perspective.

What the proof means is that, with three football teams, it is perfectly possible for Team1 to beat Team2, Team2 to be Team3, and Team 3 to beat Team1, and have all of these outcomes be the expected result. Let me be clear here — there are no upsets in these results.

What this means is that efforts to structure a National Champion in college football are doomed. Kenneth Arrow's work proves that the efforts are doomed; and Arrow got a Nobel Prize for proving it. :dong:

Kev, I gotta say I'm not sure the Dismal Science is going to help you out here. I don't see the peanut getting pushed forward by some econometric model chock full of eigenvectors.

Now, if you want me to calculate whether a $15 tip is an appropriate percentage of the lunch tab you're picking up, no problem. But that's because I worked in restaurants for 10 years, not because I studied economics. :mrgreen:

Thanks Net,
One of the first things I learned as a wholesaler in the beer business was that we had to coach store owners that if they take a $16.00 case of beer and sell it for $20.00, they did not make 25%, they only made 20% on THE SALE side. Otherwise they're kidding themselves about their GP and thinking they made more than they did and wondering why they can't pay their bills. If they calculate based on the gross sales, then when they need to know their gross profit at the end of a day they just multiply gross sales times gross margin, and to calculate the correct price from the buy side up we divide the incoming cost by the opposite of their desired margin (for 25% would be .75), so in order for them to maintain a gross margin of 25% we divide that $16.00 item by .75 and it needs to be priced at $21.33. (If the store owner was a jerk though, we just let him leave it at the 20% price).

But I don't see how you got 40% anywhere in your example above, hence the difficulty you cited as being common among non-economists. Yes, it should be the same results going up or down for the reporting you mentioned or it is biased. 50% up is not the same as 50% down, and could be used to support their agenda.

How did Team 3 beat Team 1 in an expected manner as proven by Kenneth Arrow?

Happy Sunday to you!

[netwrangler]

Thanks Net,
One of the first things I learned as a wholesaler in the beer business was that we had to coach store owners that if they take a $16.00 case of beer and sell it for $20.00, they did not make 25%, they only made 20% on THE SALE side. Kev,
I ran into the same thing as a retail rep for an oil company in SF.

The job of the retail rep, at least then, was to administer the leases for a couple of dozen service stations. At the same time, we were given sales goals for selling stuff to the service station dealers. Basically, you sold the dealer as much as you could without getting him into financial trouble.

Our standard 'entry level' tire package to the dealer was "Buy ten, get one free!" This was touted as a 10% discount by the TBA [Tires, Batteries, Accessories] specialists from Regional Marketing. They were charged with 'splaining' the packages to us lowly reps. When I pointed out that the dealers were buying 11 tires and paying for 10 — which worked out to a 9.1% discount — I got a lot of dirty looks from the Regional guys.

Later in my career, with an Econ degree in hand, I was transferred to R&M headquarters and became the guy who reviewed the ROI of the packages offered by the TBA folks.
Sweeeet! :biggrin:

[Keventerprises]

Kev,
I ran into the same thing as a retail rep for an oil company in SF.

The job of the retail rep, at least then, was to administer the leases for a couple of dozen service stations. At the same time, we were given sales goals for selling stuff to the service station dealers. Basically, you sold the dealer as much as you could without getting him into financial trouble.

Our standard 'entry level' tire package to the dealer was "Buy ten, get one free!" This was touted as a 10% discount by the TBA [Tires, Batteries, Accessories] specialists from Regional Marketing. They were charged with 'splaining' the packages to us lowly reps. When I pointed out that the dealers were buying 11 tires and paying for 10 — which worked out to a 9.1% discount — I got a lot of dirty looks from the Regional guys.

Later in my career, with an Econ degree in hand, I was transferred to R&M headquarters and became the guy who reviewed the ROI of the packages offered by the TBA folks.
Sweeeet! :biggrin:

Now that's Poetic Justice...

...Just tell the dealers that their discount is even more if they calculate it based on the retail return of the free tire, then their discount is 15%. :biggrin:

[MaryKay1965]

Monday Pick:

Marl's recommendation: FA

[netwrangler]

But I don't see how you got 40% anywhere in your example above,....Conceptually, the economist thinks of the percent change as taking place across a range, while the investor or banker thinks of it as the change from a starting point. In the previous post, the range is 100-150. The economist uses the mid-point of that range, or 125. The change of 50 is 40% of 125.

How did Team 3 beat Team 1 in an expected manner as proven by Kenneth Arrow?I probably should have used TeamA, TeamB and TeamC, or even Red Team, Blue Team, and Yellow Team. I didn't mean to imply that Team1 was more highly ranked that Team3.

Intuitively, one team beating another is a matter of how their strengths and weaknesses line up.
In textbooks, this is often illustrated non-rigorously something like this:

2631

The assumption is that a team that wins two of three categories "wins" the game. This is an unrealistic simplification used to get the point across.

Arrow's work used rigorous math to prove that such circular "win" patterns are possible.

Note: He proved they "are possible". He did not prove that these patterns are always present, just that they might be.

The proof, itself, is tough sledding — beyond my ability to explain, especially in a forum post. If you want to pursue this further, here is a Wikipedia link (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arrow's_impossibility_theorem) to get you started.

[aiki14]

Monday Pick:

Marl's recommendation: FA

I'll take NKTR for today.
Interesting how Marl is back to FA, thinly traded POS that they've already pumped. Another piece of evidence MaryKay will undoubtedly remain dimly unaware of.

[aiki14]

IMO.....Marl takes the lead in 5 more picks.....with a total combinations of Aiki14's losses and Marls' gains......No problem.......and then it's TO THE MOON, ALICE, TO THE MOON.......No stopping Marl then.......IMO

Not quite working out the way you thought? Obviously your predictive abilities rival your analytic and cognitive abilities.
Only nine more trading days and you can slink back to wherever it is parasites arise from, go back to infesting your family, and to being that creepy guy in your town that everybody is certain has a plate in his head, and tells their children to cross to the other side of the street when they see you coming.

Marl and Doubling Stocks still a SCAM, and you the hapless dupe who in a pathetic desperate way, promulgates it. Your legacy is assured, persons with a sense of honor would be considering seppuku at this point, I picture you more as the auto erotic asphyxia gone wrong type, but as a marketeer I am results oriented so you choose. :goodnight:

[Luc1Grunt]

Come on Aiki, she already said she would only posts the picks. She will not defend this post if that is the case.

I'll be glad when these threads are in the 14th tier of unread posts. Of course there will likely be another stream of "newbs" asking how effective the garbage scam is by March!!!

He, he.

[aiki14]

Come on Aiki, she already said she would only posts the picks. She will not defend this post if that is the case.

I'll be glad when these threads are in the 14th tier of unread posts. Of course there will likely be another stream of "newbs" asking how effective the garbage scam is by March!!!

He, he.

Grunt, I promise when this is over to do my absolute best to just let these things go.
It appears to be in my nature to fight rather than disregard, and it is a challenge to "let things go". But I will try.
Remind me I said this if I lose control. :)

[Luc1Grunt]

Grunt, I promise when this is over to do my absolute best to just let these things go.
It appears to be in my nature to fight rather than disregard, and it is a challenge to "let things go". But I will try.
Remind me I said this if I lose control. :)


We share some of the same DNA. I've enjoyed the show thus far!

[aiki14]

Todays picks
Marl picked FA and it opened at 2.96
Aiki picked NKTR and it opened at 7.24

[aiki14]

Todays Closes
Marl picked FA and it opened at 2.96, Closed at 2.91 down 1.7%
Aiki picked NKTR and it opened at 7.24 Closed at 7.23 down .1%

After 12 days
Marl up 18.3%
Aiki up 29.4%

DJIA up 1.05% during the contest.

[kingfisher]

AiKi14

IMO I DOUBT that she will leave even after your spanking! SHE ,if they are truly Female, will just change names as we have witnessed in the past. Only TM could have a possibility of knowing this for sure. I realize your intentions are stellar but I feel you will be back doored! Don't wast your time on these type of post any longer. These type of people love to play King of the Hill!

[Kyle]

He is a he.

[kingfisher]

Kyle

Are you saying Mary K. is a he-she or a she-he. With only 4 post I am unsure your are not Mary K. Hem?

See where we are at this point?

[kingfisher]

Kyle

Are you saying Mary K. is a he-she or a she-he. With only 4 post I am unsure your are not Mary K. Hem?

See where we are at this point?


Most here are going Hee Hee LOL

[Keventerprises]

AiKi14

IMO I DOUBT that she will leave even after your spanking! SHE ,if they are truly Female, will just change names as we have witnessed in the past. Only TM could have a possibility of knowing this for sure. I realize your intentions are stellar but I feel you will be back doored! Don't wast your time on these type of post any longer. These type of people love to play King of the Hill!

I believe a Profiler is needed to establish true Identity.

[kingfisher]

I believe a Profiler is needed to establish true Identity.

Their is an Administration around here some where. You will have to press grapes to get the truth. I feel there are other motives at work.

[zozozo333]

I can agree with you on several points. I am a newbie and I always will be. I am willing to admit that and everyone should always consider themselves newbies, because we will never know everything.

As for the things I have learned in life. First of all, I am 41 yrs. old, male, have started (from the ground up) and sold two successful companies, , invested a large part of those proceeds in real estate, and work just about when I want to. Now, I'm not gonna post any pics of myself on the beach in Hawaii, (uh-hum, Aiki14) to try to prove my financial status to this forum, or anything like that, but I can tell you I have dealt with all kinds of crazy, low-life scum of the earth employees, businessmen, contractors, lawyers, etc. and I know how to make my own decisions for myself and it's too bad others can't do the same for them.


Post #198. Does no one read?

[kingfisher]

Post #198. Does no one read?

My apologizes. I did not have time to read 28 pages of threads of 10 post each. Good Job. I stand by my post! Their will be an alternative name. They tend not to go away, just hang around under a new name.

Review the archives much more in depth my friend.

[aiki14]

Post #198. Does no one read?

That's not a completely legit question as Marykay has made contradictory and logically inconsistent statements. And his/her writing style is at best androgynous if not outrightly feminine. He/she did arrive here with a female name and then much later claim to be male. I may be old school, but where I come from we don't hide behind skirts, whether his wife's or her own.
Of course it doesn't really matter because in 8 days she'll be merely a mildly bile inducing memory, relegated to the 14th tier of forgotten threads.

[zozozo333]

That's not a completely legit question as Marykay has made contradictory and logically inconsistent statements. And his/her writing style is at best androgynous if not outrightly feminine. He/she did arrive here with a female name and then much later claim to be male. I may be old school, but where I come from we don't hide behind skirts, whether his wife's or her own.
Of course it doesn't really matter because in 8 days she'll be merely a mildly bile inducing memory, relegated to the 14th tier of forgotten threads.

Well I figured you'd at least read everything "she" said since you've had a comeback for everything anyway. I found this forum through google looking for "DS scam" and I read the whole thread and found it interesting, and maybe a bit humorous at times. I wish I found this forum earlier as there's much to look at and it seems there are some helpful people around here too!

[Keventerprises]

Their is an Administration around here some where. You will have to press grapes to get the truth. I feel there are other motives at work.

Well this here's a Beehive! :willy:

[aiki14]

Well I figured you'd at least read everything "she" said since you've had a comeback for everything anyway. I found this forum through google looking for "DS scam" and I read the whole thread and found it interesting, and maybe a bit humorous at times. I wish I found this forum earlier as there's much to look at and it seems there are some helpful people around here too!

Welcome then to the forum, there are indeed some helpful people here. Virtually any honest question is answered courteously by any number of people. As anywhere caveat emptor.
Marykay is gonna get a hard time here because of her agenda and her attitude, please don't judge the forum, or it's treatment of newbies, by our treatment of her, any more than you would judge someone's hospitality by the way they greeted a burglar.

[MaryKay1965]

Marl's recommendation for Tues: EVOL

[MaryKay1965]

Well I figured you'd at least read everything "she" said since you've had a comeback for everything anyway. I found this forum through google looking for "DS scam" and I read the whole thread and found it interesting, and maybe a bit humorous at times. I wish I found this forum earlier as there's much to look at and it seems there are some helpful people around here too!

As long as you're able to kiss a few posters' azzes around here, you'll be fine. As for me, I'm not the kissin azz type, so hopefully Aiki has plenty of room left for a big slice of humble pie after he finishes eating all of that crow. But, hey, he was blatant enough to post of pic of himself supposedly on the beach in Maui, and I've seen that belly he has, so I'm sure he's used to eating.

One more thing, if you've read the posts I have printed, I've decided not to indulge in his name calling games anymore. I will simply do as I stated and post the picks from Marl and if I win, great, if I lose, great.

As far as I am concerned, judging by Aiki's blatant attacks on me, it seems to me that he is truly concerned that he may end up losing this contest and man wouldn't that be a big blow to that ego of his. Wow, he's got some much more riding on this "contest" than I do and it is very obvious, judging by his numerous attacks against me, that he has way more time invested (aka wasted time) than me either.

But, it doesn't matter to me whether I win or lose, cause as soon as this contest is over, I'm leaving the forum anyway. Of course, if you look at the 1000's of "views" that seem to be only interested in either DoublingStocks or Marl, there may be many more leaving besides me. And then there will be a handful to chat back and forth and tell each other how great they are and how right they are, etc. The only reason I'm hanging around now is because tomorrow I'm going hunting to see if I can shot a big, black crow for good ole' Aiki. Got to prepare this feast just right. Crow and humble pie with all the fixins.

[Keventerprises]

As long as you're able to kiss a few posters' azzes around here, you'll be fine. As for me, I'm not the kissin azz type, so hopefully Aiki has plenty of room left for a big slice of humble pie after he finishes eating all of that crow. But, hey, he was blatant enough to post of pic of himself supposedly on the beach in Maui, and I've seen that belly he has, so I'm sure he's used to eating.

One more thing, if you've read the posts I have printed, I've decided not to indulge in his name calling games anymore. I will simply do as I stated and post the picks from Marl and if I win, great, if I lose, great.

As far as I am concerned, judging by Aiki's blatant attacks on me, it seems to me that he is truly concerned that he may end up losing this contest and man wouldn't that be a big blow to that ego of his. Wow, he's got some much more riding on this "contest" than I do and it is very obvious, judging by his numerous attacks against me, that he has way more time invested (aka wasted time) than me either.

But, it doesn't matter to me whether I win or lose, cause as soon as this contest is over, I'm leaving the forum anyway. Of course, if you look at the 1000's of "views" that seem to be only interested in either DoublingStocks or Marl, there may be many more leaving besides me. And then there will be a handful to chat back and forth and tell each other how great they are and how right they are, etc. The only reason I'm hanging around now is because tomorrow I'm going hunting to see if I can shot a big, black crow for good ole' Aiki. Got to prepare this feast just right. Crow and humble pie with all the fixins.

Just the facts, Maam.

[aiki14]

As long as you're able to kiss a few posters' azzes around here, you'll be fine. As for me, I'm not the kissin azz type, so hopefully Aiki has plenty of room left for a big slice of humble pie after he finishes eating all of that crow. But, hey, he was blatant enough to post of pic of himself supposedly on the beach in Maui, and I've seen that belly he has, so I'm sure he's used to eating.

One more thing, if you've read the posts I have printed, I've decided not to indulge in his name calling games anymore. I will simply do as I stated and post the picks from Marl and if I win, great, if I lose, great.

As far as I am concerned, judging by Aiki's blatant attacks on me, it seems to me that he is truly concerned that he may end up losing this contest and man wouldn't that be a big blow to that ego of his. Wow, he's got some much more riding on this "contest" than I do and it is very obvious, judging by his numerous attacks against me, that he has way more time invested (aka wasted time) than me either.

But, it doesn't matter to me whether I win or lose, cause as soon as this contest is over, I'm leaving the forum anyway. Of course, if you look at the 1000's of "views" that seem to be only interested in either DoublingStocks or Marl, there may be many more leaving besides me. And then there will be a handful to chat back and forth and tell each other how great they are and how right they are, etc. The only reason I'm hanging around now is because tomorrow I'm going hunting to see if I can shot a big, black crow for good ole' Aiki. Got to prepare this feast just right. Crow and humble pie with all the fixins.

I understand your jealousy regarding the picture you reference, I am sitting on a beach on maui, reading a book. Two things you've never done.

You don't care if you win or lose, and of course any chance of proving Marl and Doubling Stocks actually live up to their promise is out of the question.

I am glad you're sticking around to teach me a lesson, I love the competition. The market is one big competiton and I am in it to win, if that isn't your attitude you should be in mutual funds.

When you leave the forum will continue as it was before you, or me for that matter, showed up.

And let me thank you now, because you have already taught me a valuable lesson. The brain is like a muscle, if you don't use it, it atrophies.

So a guy goes into a store to buy a Brain, up on the shelf are three jars with brains on them.
The first one says Einstein $1000
The second says Hawking $1000
The third says MaryKay $100,000
The customer asks the shopkeeper why the two brilliant physicists brains are $1000 and MaryKays is $100,000
The shopkeeper answers "Thats because MaryKays has never been used"

[aiki14]

Marl's recommendation for Tues: EVOL

I'll take ORS for today.

[wallstreetsedge]

So a guy goes into a store to buy a Brain, up on the shelf are three jars with brains on them.
The first one says Einstein $1000
The second says Hawking $1000
The third says MaryKay $100,000
The customer asks the shopkeeper why the two brilliant physicists brains are $1000 and MaryKays is $100,000
The shopkeeper answers "Thats because MaryKays has never been used"

hahaha that had me dying

[aiki14]

Todays opens

Marl's pick EVOL opened at 2.38
Aiki's pick ORS opened at 2.25

[aiki14]

Wow, thanks Thierry, just signed up, using the link you so graciously provided for us. (only $47)

How much was your commission?

Doesn't matter, cause now I will be able to get rich in half the time it would have normally taken.

Up for another contest, Aiki?

Double or nothing?

Double what? You gonna leave twice? And if Marl is defunct haven't I already won?

[wallstreetsedge]

lol thats funny... and that guy has a soul patch!!! dont trust the soul patch!!! lol

[MaryKay1965]

Double what? You gonna leave twice? And if Marl is defunct haven't I already won?

Marl/DS is not out of business. Just got a DS email yesterday and today. This stock picking service may or may not be associated with them.

But I'm sure you already know the answer to that one, since you know everything.

[Thierry Martin]

I believe the doublingstocks program is still operational, not defunct, I am just commenting that it is not being promoted to affiliates anymore, at Clickbank. And I haven't seen any ads for it in a couple of days. Maybe it is being phased out. The website is still there.

I moved the PromoStockPicks posts to a separate thread here (http://www.onlinetradersforum.com/showthread.php?t=18079).

[aiki14]

Marl/DS is not out of business. Just got a DS email yesterday and today. This stock picking service may or may not be associated with them.

But I'm sure you already know the answer to that one, since you know everything.

So double what? Why would I continue? You're gonna be gone.

[Albert0373]

Wow, thanks Thierry, just signed up, using the link you so graciously provided for us. (only $47)

How much was your commission?

Doesn't matter, cause now I will be able to get rich in half the time it would have normally taken.

Up for another contest, Aiki?

Double or nothing?

Sounds oh so familiar to this scumbag who backed out of his own tilted contest.

This is lame. Totally lame. You've been whining from the get go.

Now, I'm going to do you a big favor here. I am going to end this thread and walk away. Anyone that wants to mock me can do it. But, this, AIKI is your chance to just drop it and save face. I assume that you got in over your head and don't know how to back out. Hey, I've been there before.

Sadly, though, you're in the position to defend Jim Cramer - a tall order. I understand your hesitation to put YOUR money on the line.

If you choose to post some kind of flame here, I'll contact Thierry and set up deal where I can get an escrow account open and move forward. If that's what you REALLY want, then flame away. If, however, you think that you'd rather not put your money on the line for Jim Cramer's defense, then, just don't reply here and that will be that.

But, dude, if you post here again with some flame or mocking comment, or anything about me "backing down", I'll contact Thierry and see what we can do to get a valid, open contest going here. I've watched you make personal comments about me from the start and I'm, well, tired of it. I'd rather talk about Jim Cramer.

So, again, I'm giving you a chance to just drop this and save face.

Your move, I guess.

http://www.onlinetradersforum.com/showthread.php?t=9113

[rozz]

MaryKay please just post your MARL picks and stop antagonizing everyone on the board!

[MaryKay1965]

MaryKay please just post your MARL picks and stop antagonizing everyone on the board!

ME antagonize EVERYONE????

Dude, you might need to lay off that crack pipe.

That's what I have been trying to do from the start. Maybe Thierry needs to repost all of the threads he has deleted concerning the blatant attacks against me and my motives for posting Marl's picks.

And as for leaving, Aiki, as stated before, I will after this "so-called contest" is over. I'm just hanging around to prepare that crow/humble pie meal I'm starting to prepare for you.

Anyone want to help me out and let me know what the most expensive item the forum has to offer???

I just hope Aiki doesn't have a frequent-poster discount card.

[aiki14]

ME antagonize EVERYONE????

Dude, you might need to lay off that crack pipe.

That's what I have been trying to do from the start. Maybe Thierry needs to repost all of the threads he has deleted concerning the blatant attacks against me and my motives for posting Marl's picks.

And as for leaving, Aiki, as stated before, I will after this "so-called contest" is over. I'm just hanging around to prepare that crow/humble pie meal I'm starting to prepare for you.

Anyone want to help me out and let me know what the most expensive item the forum has to offer???

I just hope Aiki doesn't have a frequent-poster discount card.

I believe it's this
Unlocking the Profits of the New Swing Chart Method by Jeff Cooper and Dave Reif
Price is $2500

[microhedge]

Nice spot Al :wink:

I keep thinking MaryKay has to be Michael (in drag) of the now defunct DoublingStocks.com8O

[MaryKay1965]

I believe it's this
Unlocking the Profits of the New Swing Chart Method by Jeff Cooper and Dave Reif
Price is $2500

Wow.......so does that mean if Marl wins I get this $2500 system ??

Woo Hoo.....Hopefully there's one in stock.

[aiki14]

Todays closes
Marl's pick EVOL opened at 2.38 closed at 2.39 up .4%
Aiki's pick ORS opened at 2.25 closed at 2.15 down 4.4% (Note, the quote is off the NasDaq site because Yahoo finance is incorrect)

After 13 days
Marl up 18.7%
Aiki up 25%

DJIA down 1.88% over the same period

[aiki14]

Wow.......so does that mean if Marl wins I get this $2500 system ??

Woo Hoo.....Hopefully there's one in stock.

What's the difference, I said I would give you the cash. You would get nothing from that product, there are no pages for you to color.
Just remember, you must post Marl's pick. If Marl is closed down you lose. Watch the SEC investigations page, the next couple days are going to be interesting. Here's the link:
http://www.sec.gov/divisions/enforce.shtml

Fun is coming.

[MaryKay1965]

What's the difference, I said I would give you the cash. You would get nothing from that product, there are no pages for you to color.
Just remember, you must post Marl's pick. If Marl is closed down you lose. Watch the SEC investigations page, the next couple days are going to be interesting. Here's the link:
http://www.sec.gov/divisions/enforce.shtml

Fun is coming.

So let me get this right. You are predicting the SEC will shut down DoublingStocks, thereby shutting down "Marl". And since "Marl" will be shut down, I cannot post "Marl's" recommended stock picks.

Fascinating and interesting theory. I just can't believe you put your reputation on the line by posting this in a public forum setting. Well, my prediction is that you never post that last pick of yours, making the contest null and void, and the great Aiki14 is never heard from again.....Time will tell.

[aiki14]

So let me get this right. You are predicting the SEC will shut down DoublingStocks, thereby shutting down "Marl". And since "Marl" will be shut down, I cannot post "Marl's" recommended stock picks.

Fascinating and interesting theory. I just can't believe you put your reputation on the line by posting this in a public forum setting. Well, my prediction is that you never post that last pick of yours, making the contest null and void, and the great Aiki14 is never heard from again.....Time will tell.

Yeah, time will tell. 7 more days for you.

[EDawg118522]

I mean shoot, Marykay you would be willing to sacrifice for all of us the knowledge and insight that a guy like Aki brings to the table here for a pissing contest over a subscription you happened upon. Even if you could make money off of doubling stocks it would be a stupid idea because you dont understand the algorithms behind marls's picks and you are blindly other's. A one month trial period hardly provides statistical evidence to prove the legitimacy of the product you claim to have no ties to. A classy guy would admit that the DS record is interesting, but everyone benefits here from the Aki's posts. I guarantee you a real, live, trained and disciplined brain will stomp your beloved Marl LIKE THE GIANTS STOMPED THE PAT's hahahah

[MaryKay1965]

I mean shoot, Marykay you would be willing to sacrifice for all of us the knowledge and insight that a guy like Aki brings to the table here for a pissing contest over a subscription you happened upon. Even if you could make money off of doubling stocks it would be a stupid idea because you dont understand the algorithms behind marls's picks and you are blindly other's. A one month trial period hardly provides statistical evidence to prove the legitimacy of the product you claim to have no ties to. A classy guy would admit that the DS record is interesting, but everyone benefits here from the Aki's posts. I guarantee you a real, live, trained and disciplined brain will stomp your beloved Marl LIKE THE GIANTS STOMPED THE PAT's hahahah

What are you worried about? Aiki hasn't agreed to leave the forum if he loses. That was never part of the deal to start with. If you go back to the original post, you will notice that I was the only one who had to leave if Marl lost the contest. Aiki stays and continues to post on the forum no matter the outcome. It was I who later said I would leave the forum no matter if I won or lost the contest.

So in the end, Aiki gets the results he was after from the beginning. MaryKay1965 leaves the forum, win or lose, forever. 8)

[MaryKay1965]

Marl's Pick for Wed...........VSCI

[reef]

What are you worried about? Aiki hasn't agreed to leave the forum if he loses. That was never part of the deal to start with. If you go back to the original post, you will notice that I was the only one who had to leave if Marl lost the contest. Aiki stays and continues to post on the forum no matter the outcome. It was I who later said I would leave the forum no matter if I won or lost the contest.

So in the end, Aiki gets the results he was after from the beginning. MaryKay1965 leaves the forum, win or lose, forever. 8)


Yes drama queen, we already know that your going to leave. My fingers are crossed for sooner than later but you and Aiki have this little contest.

The person you quoted never once said anything about Aiki leaving. Like most of your replies, you are not reading what your replying to. Its no wonder you need a program to make stock picks for you. :joyman:

[aiki14]

So in the end, Aiki gets the results he was after from the beginning. MaryKay1965 leaves the forum, win or lose, forever. 8)

My goal from the beginning was to prove that Marl and the DOUBLING STOCKS SCAM was not delivering on their promise. Clearly that has been achieved. Except for promulgating this SCAM, MaryKay has made no contribution whatsoever, and would have gone unnoticed. I believe her to be intellectually incapable of contributing in a meaningful way, so her leaving is merely a side benefit.

[aiki14]

I'll Take ORS again today

[aiki14]

I'll Take ORS again today

I am going to change that to FMT for today.

[aiki14]

Todays Opens

Marl's pick VSCI opened at 2.72
Aiki's Pick FMT opened at 2.72

[MaryKay1965]

Todays Opens

Aiki's Pick FMT opened at 2.72

Can you double check this opening price, Aiki?

[microhedge]

I mean shoot, Marykay you would be willing to sacrifice for all of us the knowledge and insight that a guy like Aki brings to the table here for a pissing contest over a subscription you happened upon. Even if you could make money off of doubling stocks it would be a stupid idea because you dont understand the algorithms behind marls's picks and you are blindly other's. A one month trial period hardly provides statistical evidence to prove the legitimacy of the product you claim to have no ties to. A classy guy would admit that the DS record is interesting, but everyone benefits here from the Aki's posts. I guarantee you a real, live, trained and disciplined brain will stomp your beloved Marl LIKE THE GIANTS STOMPED THE PAT's hahahah

nice post EDawg118522 :top:

[aiki14]

Can you double check this opening price, Aiki?

Sorry, it opened at 3.29

[aiki14]

Todays closes

Marl's pick VSCI opened at 2.72 closed at 2.63 down 3.3%
Aiki's Pick FMT opened at 3.29 closed at 3.15 down 4.2%

Totals after 14 days
Marl up 15.4%
Aiki up 20.8%

Dow is down 2.2% during the same period.

If anybody is interested in how the Doubling stocks people manipulate the price of their picks, on NasDaq open view, or level 2, note the following:
Prop bids and wall bids by the ECN CINN, and flash bids using ARCA, less frequently NSDQ. The thing that will get them shut down is painting the tape, or selling to themselves to make it appear as if action is taking place that really isn't. Time is running out for these guys and they know it.

Time also running out for you MaryKay, 6 days left.

With all the money you're making with Marl's picks you can start your own forum, and bring all the folks who will leave when you are gone, or buy a pack of gum.

[MaryKay1965]

Marl's Pick for Thurs: USEG

[aiki14]

Marl's Pick for Thurs: USEG

I'll take BSRC today.

[aiki14]

Todays opens

Marl's pick USEG opened at 4.01
Aiki's pick BSRC opened at .82

[aiki14]

Todays closes

Marl's pick USEG opened at 4.01 and closed at 3.90 down 2.8%
Aiki's pick BSRC opened at .82 and closed at .79 down 3.6%

Totals after 15 Days
Marl Up 12.8%
Aiki14 up 17.2%

The DJIA is down 1.8% over the same period.

[aiki14]

Is there anybody out there stupid enough to believe that Marl actually delivers what it promises?
They promise 34.6% a week and after three weeks they are up 12.8%. That is 91% BELOW what they promise.

MARL IS A SCAM

DOUBLING STOCKS IS A SCAM

DON'T BE A HAPLESS DUPE, DON'T SEND THESE CRIMINALS YOUR MONEY.

[MaryKay1965]

Todays closes

Marl's pick USEG opened at 4.01 and closed at 3.90 down 2.8%
Aiki's pick BSRC opened at .82 and closed at .79 down 3.6%

Totals after 15 Days
Marl Up 12.8%
Aiki14 up 17.2%

The DJIA is down 1.8% over the same period.

Amazing how you always seem to round "down" or "up" for whatever seems to benefit your picks the most.

For the record Marl finished -2.8205 or -2.8%
Aiki finished -3.7975 or -3.8%

There are others, but unless it comes to fractions of a %, I will not worry about those. Please make any necessary corrections.

[Keventerprises]

Amazing how you always seem to round "down" or "up" for whatever seems to benefit your picks the most.

For the record Marl finished -2.8205 or -2.8%
Aiki finished -3.7975 or -3.8%

There are others, but unless it comes to fractions of a %, I will not worry about those. Please make any necessary corrections.

MK,
Anyone, such as Aiki, who offers to go way above and beyond what is necessary by volunteering the fact that there is an item available to you if you win that costs $2,500.00 and send it to you via Pay Pal, and will no doubt keep his word, and who values honor that much is not out to slight you! And he didn't even complain, such as you do. You should go be Michael's Bitch in jail.

Now shut the F*ck up!!!

[wallstreetsedge]

MK,
Anyone, such as Aiki, who offers to go way above and beyond what is necessary by volunteering the fact that there is an item available to you if you win that costs $2,500.00 and send it to you via Pay Pal, and will no doubt keep his word, and who values honor that much is not out to slight you! And he didn't even complain, such as you do. You should go be Michael's Bitch in jail.

Now shut the F*ck up!!!

kev.. $2500???? i thought this was for a book or mk leaving? lol

[AJLightning]

MK,
Anyone, such as Aiki, who offers to go way above and beyond what is necessary by volunteering the fact that there is an item available to you if you win that costs $2,500.00 and send it to you via Pay Pal, and will no doubt keep his word, and who values honor that much is not out to slight you! And he didn't even complain, such as you do. You should go be Michael's Bitch in jail.

Now shut the F*ck up!!!



:top:

[aiki14]

Amazing how you always seem to round "down" or "up" for whatever seems to benefit your picks the most.

For the record Marl finished -2.8205 or -2.8%
Aiki finished -3.7975 or -3.8%

There are others, but unless it comes to fractions of a %, I will not worry about those. Please make any necessary corrections.

You're wrong, .79 is 3.6% down from .82 exactly as I put it. Just in case you need a little help with this you take the difference, in the case above .03 and divide it by .82 and you get .036 or 3.6%. If your not sure multiply .82 by 96.4 and you get .79. I didn't go to 4 places because I am lazy, you want 4 places you do it, but get the concept correct.
You've already proven percentages are over your head, if you're unsatisfied get someone neutral to do it.

[MaryKay1965]

You're wrong, .79 is 3.6% down from .82 exactly as I put it. Just in case you need a little help with this you take the difference, in the case above .03 and divide it by .82 and you get .036 or 3.6%. If your not sure multiply .82 by 96.4 and you get .79. I didn't go to 4 places because I am lazy, you want 4 places you do it, but get the concept correct.
You've already proven percentages are over your head, if you're unsatisfied get someone neutral to do it.

Fine, here's your method, but you're still wrong.

4.01-3.90=.11/4.01=.02743 or -2.743% or -2.7%
.82-.79=.03/.82=.03658 or -3.658 or -3.7%(the 5 after the 6 means you round up)

Just admit you made a mistake, it's not that hard, man.

[MaryKay1965]

MK,
Anyone, such as Aiki, who offers to go way above and beyond what is necessary by volunteering the fact that there is an item available to you if you win that costs $2,500.00 and send it to you via Pay Pal, and will no doubt keep his word, and who values honor that much is not out to slight you! And he didn't even complain, such as you do. You should go be Michael's Bitch in jail.

Now shut the F*ck up!!!

You really don't have a dog in this fight, do you?

[aiki14]

Fine, here's your method, but you're still wrong.

4.01-3.90=.11/4.01=.02743 or -2.743% or -2.7%
.82-.79=.03/.82=.03658 or -3.658 or -3.7%(the 5 after the 6 means you round up)

Just admit you made a mistake, it's not that hard, man.

Ok, I made a mistake. I will correct it. I notice the numbers don't match yours either. And I have admitted my arithmetic mistakes before. A man admits his mistakes.

[aiki14]

Todays closes

Marl's pick USEG opened at 4.01 and closed at 3.90 down 2.8%
Aiki's pick BSRC opened at .82 and closed at .79 down 3.6%

Totals after 15 Days
Marl Up 12.8%
Aiki14 up 17.2%

The DJIA is down 1.8% over the same period.

Corrections due to my arithmetic mistakes.
Marl actually down 2.7%
Aiki actually down 3.7%

Corrected totals
Marl up 12.9%
Aiki14 up 17.1%

[aiki14]

kev.. $2500???? i thought this was for a book or mk leaving? lol

I agreed to buy MaryKay whatever she wanted from the forum book store. It turns out the most expensive thing is an 8 dvd plus books and charts course called "Unlocking the profits of the new swing chart method" by Jeff Cooper and Dave Reif. Listed for $2500
I will admit I didn't see that when I made the bet, but a bet is a bet. And I am not going to break my word for $2500, even after this I still have to live with myself. In fact to be totally honest I said I would give her the cash value and donate the prize to the winner of the monthly contest, and I will do that if it comes down to it.
Of course no matter what I get the satisfaction of proving Marl to be a scam, and Marykay to be a dishonorable promoter of the scam. She won't understand that, but that's ok.

[Keventerprises]

You really don't have a dog in this fight, do you?

I'm going to guess that this is not the first time that you have alienated people. I feel sorry for you that you have not gotten beyond that. You should have started by being honest with your image and your gender. TS, TV, TG is not mainstream here, and I hope that never changes. Don't do that in Texas! Were you damaged at the age of about 8 years old? That's my educated guess. I truly feel sorry for you. A pity party is no way to live.

[AJLightning]

:thefinger:

[AJLightning]

:idea:

http://www.investopedia.com/terms/g/ghosting.asp

http://www.investopedia.com/terms/m/manipulation.asp

[Keventerprises]

I agreed to buy MaryKay whatever she wanted from the forum book store. It turns out the most expensive thing is an 8 dvd plus books and charts course called "Unlocking the profits of the new swing chart method" by Jeff Cooper and Dave Reif. Listed for $2500
I will admit I didn't see that when I made the bet, but a bet is a bet. And I am not going to break my word for $2500, even after this I still have to live with myself. In fact to be totally honest I said I would give her the cash value and donate the prize to the winner of the monthly contest, and I will do that if it comes down to it.
Of course no matter what I get the satisfaction of proving Marl to be a scam, and Marykay to be a dishonorable promoter of the scam. She won't understand that, but that's ok.

I'll chip in $500.00! I just got $144.00 back from Michael!

[Keventerprises]

:rofl:

[MaryKay1965]

Marl's Pick for Friday: ITI (Iteris, Inc.)

[Keventerprises]

You really don't have a dog in this fight, do you?

They don't have one's this nice in jail.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5_jDIu0dB_I[/QUOTE]

[aiki14]

I'll chip in $500.00! I just got $144.00 back from Michael!

Hey Kev, I appreciate the thought, but in the event of a loss I'll take care of it. I would ask that you extend your generosity to a charity of your choice. Perhaps a charity for the mentally challenged, or SERK (Society for Education Resistant Knuckleheads), either will help people like MaryKay.

In all seriousness, thanks for the offer, and I do urge you and anyone else who has the good fortune that this business can afford, to pick a cause and support it. A donation to a charity or philanthropic organization is a satisfying way to use that extra cash.

[aiki14]

I'll go back to NRMX today

[aiki14]

Todays opens

Marls pick ITI opened at 2.50
Aiki's pick NRMX opened at 1.82

[Keventerprises]

Hey Kev, I appreciate the thought, but in the event of a loss I'll take care of it. I would ask that you extend your generosity to a charity of your choice. Perhaps a charity for the mentally challenged, or SERK (Society for Education Resistant Knuckleheads), either will help people like MaryKay.

In all seriousness, thanks for the offer, and I do urge you and anyone else who has the good fortune that this business can afford, to pick a cause and support it. A donation to a charity or philanthropic organization is a satisfying way to use that extra cash.

I know it won't be needed, and you know that I did not offer it because I doubted you, actually I was thinking of the (14) Club... Please elaborate if you wish. In any case have a great day! I've got some filters to work on...

[aiki14]

Todays Closes

Marls pick ITI opened at 2.50 and closed at 2.60 up 4%
Aiki's pick NRMX opened at 1.82 and closed at 1.72 down 5.5%

After 16 days
Marl up 16.9%
Aiki up 11.6%

The DJIA is down 2.2% over the same period

[wallstreetsedge]

oh that sucks.. how about we do me vs. marl

if mk wins, ill also get her anything in the store
if i win, aiki is off the hook on this one

[aiki14]

oh that sucks.. how about we do me vs. marl

if mk wins, ill also get her anything in the store
if i win, aiki is off the hook on this one

Still time left. And I pay my own debts. But thanks.

[wallstreetsedge]

how much time is left here?

id like to take on mk for fun and to show that a human can always outperform a stupid bot thats guessing

mk yoiu wanna do this then considering the circumstances....

if i win, you cover the prize for the monthly challenge
if you win, i'll cover the prize for the monthly challenge

[MaryKay1965]

how much time is left here?

id like to take on mk for fun and to show that a human can always outperform a stupid bot thats guessing

mk yoiu wanna do this then considering the circumstances....

if i win, you cover the prize for the monthly challenge
if you win, i'll cover the prize for the monthly challenge

No thanks.

[wallstreetsedge]

oh well, i tried :bike:

[aiki14]

I'll Take CPST for Monday

[MaryKay1965]

Marl's Recommendation for Monday: FA

[coolguyme]

DoublingStocks exposed.....

http://www.pennystocks.com/html/blog/blog/post/82/

Credit goes to 'Wondering'.

[freakscene]

Marl's Recommendation for Monday: FA


a whopping 8,000 shares traded so far today.

doesnt appear as if many people followed this recommendation

[aiki14]

Closes
Marls pick FA opened @ 2.76 closed at 2.84 up 2.9%
Aiki's pick CPST opened @ 1.53 closed at 1.51 down 1.3%

After 17 days
Marl up 19.7%
Aiki up 10.3%

My guess is MaryKay is feeling very confident at this point.

[MaryKay1965]

Closes
Marls pick FA opened @ 2.76 closed at 2.84 up 2.9%
Aiki's pick CPST opened @ 1.53 closed at 1.51 down 1.3%

After 17 days
Marl up 19.7%
Aiki up 10.3%

My guess is MaryKay is feeling very confident at this point.

Actually Marl is up 19.8%.

Marl was up 16.9% {post #338} then had an additional gain today of 2.9% for a total of 19.8%

[MaryKay1965]

Marl's Recommendation for Tues: KTCC

[aiki14]

I'll go with CXTI today.

[AJLightning]

I'll go with CXTI today.


DUDE? (Budlight commercial) :beerglass::mrgreen::beerglass:

Are you losing your mojo or what? You were creaming this slim ball early on!

[aiki14]

DUDE? (Budlight commercial) :beerglass::mrgreen::beerglass:

Are you losing your mojo or what? You were creaming this slim ball early on!
Looks like it, I just don't trade like this. I have been taking excessive risk. No big deal the point I wanted to make is the Marl is a scam. Promised 34+% a week delivered less than 5, and that is with some days less than 25k volume.
So I have 2 days left, and the only way to win is to do what they do. Watch what happens.

[AJLightning]

Looks like it, I just don't trade like this. I have been taking excessive risk. No big deal the point I wanted to make is the Marl is a scam. Promised 34+% a week delivered less than 5, and that is with some days less than 25k volume.
So I have 2 days left, and the only way to win is to do what they do. Watch what happens.



:eek2::eek2::eek2:

thought you might of had something up your sleeve...

I'm pulling for you bro! :beerglass::mrgreen::beerglass:

[Thierry Martin]

I want to go on the record here to say that I don't consider one trading contest very significant. Aiki14 has won many of our contests in the forum competitions before, check out this week's stock challenge, he is creaming the competition with a 23% gain in two days. (That's 4,221% annualized, or you could turn a $1,000 investment into over 4.2 MILLION dollars in one year!)

However, even though MARL performance claims weren't met, and it is questionable whether the charted gains were achievable in a real world trading situation, MARL has performed remarkably well for a dubious "black box" system. It would appear that the picks are generated according to payment schedules for promotions, and maybe some other secret ingredients to keep everyone guessing. Perhaps it was a fluke, perhaps gains are achievable gaming the pumps and dumps if the ethics of that don't bother you, but remember, there is a stock picking monkey that consistently beats Cramer's picks, there is a lot of "luck" and unpredictable randomness in the markets, I would caution jumping to conclusions based on this simple contest. I doubt the "sample size" of one contest is enough to prove much of anything.

I'm not defending Aiki14 or attacking MaryKay here, just trying to temper the controversy that this whole thing has created. I thought it was fun, although it got pretty ugly at times.

[wallstreetsedge]

even though MARL performance claims weren't met, and it is questionable whether the charted gains were achievable in a real world trading situation

agreed, especially when its picks are very light volume.. just throwing in an order to buy 1000 shares could throw the stock up.. didnt we see something similar the other day when there was a pick and someone bought 100 shares pushing it up 72%?

[wallstreetsedge]

Marl's Recommendation for Tues: KTCC

thats shocking, i know that company pretty well

[microhedge]

However, even though MARL performance claims weren't met, and it is questionable whether the charted gains were achievable in a real world trading situation, MARL has performed remarkably well for a dubious "black box" system

Thierry, all things being considered, I am truly shocked you would make this statement... I am embarrassed.

Remarkably well?! One would have to throw logic and reason and reality out the window to accept that statement.

Good grief.

[aiki14]

Todays closes
Marl's pick KTCC opened at 3.38 and closed at 3.43 up 1.5%
Aiki's pick CXTI opened at .31 and closed at .20 down 32.3%

Totals after 18 days
Marl up 21.3%
Aiki down 22%

Pretty grim, It's gonna take a miracle.

[MaryKay1965]

Todays closes
Marl's pick KTCC opened at 3.38 and closed at 3.43 up 1.5%
Aiki's pick CXTI opened at .31 and closed at .20 down 32.3%

Totals after 18 days
Marl up 21.3%
Aiki down 22%

Pretty grim, It's gonna take a miracle.

Aiki, I came up with a loss of 35.5% for you today using "my" method and "your" method of figuring % gains and losses.

Here is "my" method:
.20 /.31 = .6452 - 1 = -.3548 or -35.5%

Here is "your" method:
.31 -.20 = .11/.31 = .3548 or -35.5%.

Please make any necessary adjustments.

[MaryKay1965]

Aiki, I came up with a loss of 35.5% for you today using "my" method and "your" method of figuring % gains and losses.

Here is "my" method:
.20 /.31 = .6452 - 1 = -.3548 or -35.5%

Here is "your" method:
.31 -.20 = .11/.31 = .3548 or -35.5%.

Please make any necessary adjustments.

If you agree with this, then your picks are actually -25.2%

[MaryKay1965]

Marl's Recommendation for Wed.
RF Micro Devices Inc. (RFMD)

[aiki14]

I'll take Cxti again today

[aiki14]

Todays opens

Marl's pick RFMD opened at 3.44
Aiki's pick CXTI opened at .12

[yanksrule80]

marl closed at 3.40 and aiki closed at .12 according to yahoo....

[MaryKay1965]

marl closed at 3.40 and aiki closed at .12 according to yahoo....

Actually Yahoo.com and Nasdaq.com both report the following:

RFMD (Marl) Open: 3.44 Close: 3.42
CXTI (Aiki) Open: .12 Close: .12

[MaryKay1965]

Todays closes
Marl's pick RFMD opened at 3.44 and closed at 3.42 down .6%
Aiki's pick CXTI opened at .12 and closed at .12 change 0%

Totals after 19 days
Marl up 20.7%
Aiki down 25.2%

[aiki14]

marl closed at 3.40 and aiki closed at .12 according to yahoo....

Hey thanks, saves me the trouble of looking
Isn't yahoo delayed 15 minutes? You in a rush?

[aiki14]

Actually Yahoo.com and Nasdaq.com both report the following:

RFMD (Marl) Open: 3.44 Close: 3.42
CXTI (Aiki) Open: .12 Close: .12

Now you're posting the results? You must be anxious. One more day, looks really doubtful for me. Some folks saying they want to see the cocky dude go down.
You should figure out a way for me to send you the money. Then we'll see if you're a person of your word.

[MaryKay1965]

Hey thanks, saves me the trouble of looking
Isn't yahoo delayed 15 minutes? You in a rush?

Yes, Yahoo is delayed 15 minutes, I posted at 4:30
No, Nasdaq is not delayed.
Sorry for taking "your job" of posting results.
Yes, I'm a dude of my word, told you I would leave if I lost.
Hope, you're a dude of your word. ;)

[aiki14]

Yes, Yahoo is delayed 15 minutes, I posted at 4:30
No, Nasdaq is not delayed.
Sorry for taking "your job" of posting results.
Yes, I'm a dude of my word, told you I would leave if I lost.
Hope, you're a dude of your word. ;)

Actually you said you would leave either way, right?
And the post you quote is what I wrote to someone else. Or are you yanks rule as well?

[MaryKay1965]

OK, class today's lesson in trading is: Fighting The Tape.

Investopedia.com lists the definition of "fighting the tape" as:


The action of placing a trade or trades that go against the ticker tape.
Someone who is buying stocks while the overall market is falling is said to be fighting the tape. Many traders say that fighting the tape is a cardinal sin.


Some people may call it "painting the tape."

Same thing, in other words, if someone wants to "manipulate" the PPS of a stock to show that a tremendous gain was achieved during the trading day, they simply put in an order to buy a "lot" of shares for more than the ask/sell price right around closing time of the market.

Let me give you an example: Let's say a stock is selling for .12 per share and I offer to buy that same stock (at 3:59 PM EST) for .20 per share. Now, if that stock opened at .12 per share and has been selling for .10 -.12 per share all day long and then right at the last minute I offer to buy a 1000 shares at .20/share and then the market closes, I could theoritically say that stock made a 67.7% gain for that day. To the under educated traders, it looks like a "winner, winner, chicken dinner" type of stock. But to the more savy investor, it is very, very clear what has happened.

No, I'm not accusing anyone of doing this. I just want to go on record and let those of you that are less informed know how easy it is to manipulate the price of a very, very small priced stock with little to no volume. I mean you may one day find yourself in a "contest" against a stock picking robot named "Marl" and find that this is your last resort to winning the contest, especially if your trades are way below those of your opponent and you need a grand slam home run on the last trade of the contest.

This is MaryKay1965's take on what type of stock Aiki will choose for his final pick: For some unknown reason he will steer off course of his usual picks and recommend a micro, micro penny stock, not like the stocks he would normally recommend for the contest. I know I may ruffle a few feathers by saying this, but I have a feeling that Aiki's pick tomorrow will be way out in left field compared to the recommendations he has made up till this point. I guess we'll have to wait and see what his pick for tomorrow is.

Marl: +20.7%
Aiki: -25.2%

One trade left. (Thurs.)

But that's just my opinion....and yes everyone has one. ;)

[MaryKay1965]

Actually you said you would leave either way, right?
And the post you quote is what I wrote to someone else. Or are you yanks rule as well?

Oh, sorry, I thought I was referring to "my post." No, I'm not Yanks Rule, maybe Rebel's Rule. I'm from the south, remember?

And yes, I said I would leave, whether I win or lose, and I will stick to that. No problem. :D

[aiki14]

OK, class today's lesson in trading is: Fighting The Tape.

Investopedia.com lists the definition of "fighting the tape" as:


The action of placing a trade or trades that go against the ticker tape.
Someone who is buying stocks while the overall market is falling is said to be fighting the tape. Many traders say that fighting the tape is a cardinal sin.


Some people may call it "painting the tape."

Same thing, in other words, if someone wants to "manipulate" the PPS of a stock to show that a tremendous gain was achieved during the trading day, they simply put in an order to buy a "lot" of shares for more than the ask/sell price right around closing time of the market.

Let me give you an example: Let's say a stock is selling for .12 per share and I offer to buy that same stock (at 3:59 PM EST) for .20 per share. Now, if that stock opened at .12 per share and has been selling for .10 -.12 per share all day long and then right at the last minute I offer to buy a 1000 shares at .20/share and then the market closes, I could theoritically say that stock made a 67.7% gain for that day. To the under educated traders, it looks like a "winner, winner, chicken dinner" type of stock. But to the more savy investor, it is very, very clear what has happened.

No, I'm not accusing anyone of doing this. I just want to go on record and let those of you that are less informed know how easy it is to manipulate the price of a very, very small priced stock with little to no volume. I mean you may one day find yourself in a "contest" against a stock picking robot named "Marl" and find that this is your last resort to winning the contest, especially if your trades are way below those of your opponent and you need a grand slam home run on the last trade of the contest.

This is MaryKay1965's take on what type of stock Aiki will choose for his final pick: For some unknown reason he will steer off course of his usual picks and recommend a micro, micro penny stock, not like the stocks he would normally recommend for the contest. I know I may ruffle a few feathers by saying this, but I have a feeling that Aiki's pick tomorrow will be way out in left field compared to the recommendations he has made up till this point. I guess we'll have to wait and see what his pick for tomorrow is.

Marl: +20.7%
Aiki: -25.2%

One trade left. (Thurs.)

But that's just my opinion....and yes everyone has one. ;)

You're 100% correct, and it's pretty clear Marl has been doing that in one fashion or another. But it isn't against the rules is it?

My pick for tomorrow EMDG. Let's see you stop me.

[MaryKay1965]

You're 100% correct, and it's pretty clear Marl has been doing that in one fashion or another. But it isn't against the rules is it?

My pick for tomorrow EMDG. Let's see you stop me.

OK, he finally admitted it folks. This is your great AIKI14, the stock picking God, just watch him manipulate the price of a .0002 PPS stock pick.

Gee, I guess it won't be hard to get a 100% gain for yourself, will it.

Aiki, if you do this, you are truly a LOSER and your reputation is SHOT TO H*LL. It is obvious at this point that you are way out of your league and can't beat "Marl" fair and square.

I guess you were just too late getting in that "last minute" order on today's pick. I saw it pop up on my Level 2 and apparantly it got filled, buy after the close of 4:00, therefore it wasn't recorded on Yahoo or Nasdaq, so for our "contest" it was never an official buy.

Folks, what Aiki is about to do is truly the definition of SCAM. I guess this was your "ace in the hole", huh Aiki14, it's just too bad I already knew what your trick was going to be, before you did it. ;)

[aiki14]

OK, he finally admitted it folks. This is your great AIKI14, the stock picking God, just watch him manipulate the price of a .0002 PPS stock pick.

Gee, I guess it won't be hard to get a 100% gain for yourself, will it.

Aiki, if you do this, you are truly a LOSER and your reputation is SHOT TO H*LL. It is obvious at this point that you are way out of your league and can't beat "Marl" fair and square.

I guess you were just too late getting in that "last minute" order on today's pick. I saw it pop up on my Level 2 and apparantly it got filled, buy after the close of 4:00, therefore it wasn't recorded on Yahoo or Nasdaq, so for our "contest" it was never an official buy.

Folks, what Aiki is about to do is truly the definition of SCAM. I guess this was your "ace in the hole", huh Aiki14, it's just too bad I already knew what your trick was going to be, before you did it. ;)

I am laughing so hard I can hardly type, you're all bent out of shape because I am going to use a scam to beat a scam. You talking fair and square is priceless. Hysterical.
Any "savvy" trader knows Marl has painted the tape from day one, at least I have said it outright and I am not taking anybodies money. I don't hide behind a disclaimer, and do the "legal" thing while being totally unethical.

Congrats on knowing my trick before I did it, even if I hadn't told everyone in the chatroom, you and Marl would certainly have recognized this tactic. And how bout this, I didn't do it today, except putting in a sale of 1000 shares at 19 late in the day that didn't execute. How much did it cost you to try and defend against it. Tomorrow you wont be able to and I will still win.

God you are funny.

[MaryKay1965]

You're 100% correct, and it's pretty clear Marl has been doing that in one fashion or another. But it isn't against the rules is it?

My pick for tomorrow EMDG. Let's see you stop me.

Whatever, man, if you want to go out like that, that's cool with me. I just hope Thierry will take the time to put our "contest" in a Read Only thread with it's own title so that everyone that visits the OTF can read it and see what a LOSER you really are when it comes to "accepting challenges" and then doing anything you can as a last ditch effort to "win."

I'll post Marl's pick for Thurs. when it comes out so we can finish this "contest" and you can brag to everyone on the OTF of how you beat Marl by xxx% when someone challenged you to a 20 pick contest and how much of a scam DoublingStocks and Marl are. Anyone with half an ounce of a brain though, will be able to read back through our "contest" and make an informed decision for themselves. I know you like to control everyone's thoughts for them, but to a majority of people, you haven't proved a thing. If anything, you've probably given Marl more credit than he deserves.

So Thierry, after the contest ends between Marl and Aiki, and I am gone, my personal request to you to put this in a Read Only column like it should be and let people decide for themselves whether Marl proved to be an asset or a liability. Have a great life, Aiki14.

Official Results (as of the 19 out of 20 picks)

Marl: +20.7%
Aiki: -25.2%

After Aiki "Paints The Tape" or "Fights The Tape" on the 20th pick, who knows what the results will be. :proud:

[aiki14]

Whatever, man, if you want to go out like that, that's cool with me. I just hope Thierry will take the time to put our "contest" in a Read Only thread with it's own title so that everyone that visits the OTF can read it and see what a LOSER you really are when it comes to "accepting challenges" and then doing anything you can as a last ditch effort to "win."

I'll post Marl's pick for Thurs. when it comes out so we can finish this "contest" and you can brag to everyone on the OTF of how you beat Marl by xxx% when someone challenged you to a 20 pick contest and how much of a scam DoublingStocks and Marl are. Anyone with half an ounce of a brain though, will be able to read back through our "contest" and make an informed decision for themselves. I know you like to control everyone's thoughts for them, but to a majority of people, you haven't proved a thing. If anything, you've probably given Marl more credit than he deserves.

So Thierry, after the contest ends between Marl and Aiki, and I am gone, my personal request to you to put this in a Read Only column like it should be and let people decide for themselves whether Marl proved to be an asset or a liability. Have a great life, Aiki14.

Official Results (as of the 19 out of 20 picks)

Marl: +20.7%
Aiki: -25.2%

After Aiki "Paints The Tape" or "Fights The Tape" on the 20th pick, who knows what the results will be. :proud:

One thing I can guarantee is I won't be bragging about this. I am embarrassed to have participated in it, and am embarrassed at my behavior pretty much from the start. But I don't like to lose, so I will go down fighting, that's my way.
It is a shame you can't admit the truth, or your mistakes as I have. Even folks like Lizard King who came to trash me admits Marl is a joke, I don't remember anybody leaping to your or Marls defense, and for good reason. Marl Should be up more than 145% if they lived up to their promise, and we know that ain't happening.
If Thierry wants to make this a read only thread for people to come and see how Marl did, then he should tell the whole truth. In that light Marl looks like the scam it is. Jesse Livermore couldn't trade their picks for a profit.

[aiki14]

Whatever, man, if you want to go out like that, that's cool with me. I just hope Thierry will take the time to put our "contest" in a Read Only thread with it's own title so that everyone that visits the OTF can read it and see what a LOSER you really are when it comes to "accepting challenges" and then doing anything you can as a last ditch effort to "win."

I'll post Marl's pick for Thurs. when it comes out so we can finish this "contest" and you can brag to everyone on the OTF of how you beat Marl by xxx% when someone challenged you to a 20 pick contest and how much of a scam DoublingStocks and Marl are. Anyone with half an ounce of a brain though, will be able to read back through our "contest" and make an informed decision for themselves. I know you like to control everyone's thoughts for them, but to a majority of people, you haven't proved a thing. If anything, you've probably given Marl more credit than he deserves.

So Thierry, after the contest ends between Marl and Aiki, and I am gone, my personal request to you to put this in a Read Only column like it should be and let people decide for themselves whether Marl proved to be an asset or a liability. Have a great life, Aiki14.

Official Results (as of the 19 out of 20 picks)

Marl: +20.7%
Aiki: -25.2%

After Aiki "Paints The Tape" or "Fights The Tape" on the 20th pick, who knows what the results will be. :proud:

I withdraw my pick and withdraw from the contest. Pick your prize, Thierry can reach me by e-mail as to how I will be able to get it to you.
Good Luck, I hope you and the DS folks get what you deserve.

[microhedge]

Yes, Yahoo is delayed 15 minutes, I posted at 4:30
No, Nasdaq is not delayed.
Sorry for taking "your job" of posting results.
Yes, I'm a dude of my word, told you I would leave if I lost.
Hope, you're a dude of your word. ;)

NO, you said you would leave OTF permanently no matter the outcome of this stupid contest!

So, be a shim of your word and get lost... we're all anxiously awaiting your departure.

[freakscene]

I know you like to control everyone's thoughts for them, but to a majority of people, you haven't proved a thing.

no offense, but you really didnt prove anything either.

MARL didnt double your money just like its never doubled anyones money, and the ability to exit some of "its" picks was never even considered.

i am not on the inside crowd on this forum and aiki certainly doesnt need (or probably want) me to defend him, considering we've argued more than agreed on things, but i can assure you that regular members of this board (and others) will continue to seek his advice over yours, MARLS or the scam that is Doubling Stocks for a long time to come.

[yanksrule80]

trust me I aint mary kay you can see by my other post and this contest does not show the whole truth about aiki I have been following and one bad day killed you in this contest and I would take your picks over that robot anyday.

[MaryKay1965]

I withdraw my pick and withdraw from the contest. Pick your prize, Thierry can reach me by e-mail as to how I will be able to get it to you.
Good Luck, I hope you and the DS folks get what you deserve.

Not really sure if Aiki is serious or not about this post.

However, just in the event he's not, I don't really want Aiki to cry "foul" and declare himself the winner because I never posted Marl's 20th pick.

BTW, I have asked Thierry to pass on the info to Aiki as to which prize I would like to have and I have not received a response, yet. Therefore, IMO, the "contest" is not over yet, and I am not required to leave the OTF forum, yet.

Marl's Recommendation For Thurs: EVOL

[reef]

If i am not mistaken, Aiki's last pick must be used today if he doesnt claim a new symbol.

[reef]

20 days, pick before open. Open versus close price. Apparently Marl does not provide a new pick every day so the previous days pick is used again. Same for me if I want to use the same pick.

Here, I thought there was a rule for not posting a pick in time.

[reef]

Good luck

[coolguyme]

I am not taking any sides here nor trying to offend anyone. But, this contest reminds me of hare and tortoise fable.

[MaryKay1965]

Here, I thought there was a rule for not posting a pick in time.

Gee, I don't know. Does that rule apply or does Aiki's withdrawing from the contest apply. Below is a copy/paste that he wrote:

Quote:
Originally Posted by aiki14
I withdraw my pick and withdraw from the contest. Pick your prize, Thierry can reach me by e-mail as to how I will be able to get it to you.
Good Luck, I hope you and the DS folks get what you deserve.


Apparently, if you enter a "contest" with Aiki, you can change the rules to suite yourself. I guess if he gets all that paint off his hands and ever returns to the forum, we will know what the latest rules are. {According to Aiki}

Side note: In all fairness to the "Marl" program that so graciously kicked Aiki's a**, the stocks given out by "Marl" were in the opening price range of $1.58(APT) - $4.36 (GMST). Hardly the type of stocks that can be "manipulated" as suggested by Aiki.

The last stock pick that Aiki picked (.12 PPS) is very easy to "manipulate" or "paint/fight the tape." As pointed out by me yesterday, I knew this was going to be his last ditch effort to win this "contest," It was evident to me that he had tried to this several times during the day when his pick CSTI amazing went from an ask price of .12 to .17/.19/.20/.17 respectively in lots of 1000 shares each.

In fact the "official" last sale price of .12 which was recorded on Yahoo.finance and Nasdaq.com was the closing price for his stock CSTI yesterday, so I guess his last minute attempt to paint the tape failed for him yesterday. IMO.....It's strange to me that someone would try anything in their capacity to claim "Marl is a scam" without one ounce of proof. Some say that the DS newsletter/email is a scam, but it is very clear the "game" they are playing. If you're not sure, just read the lengthy disclaimer on the bottom of their website as well as the emails they send out weekly.

No doubt Aiki is more "savy", as he puts it, then most when it comes to the stock market. But when it comes to his demeanor, that holds alot to be desired. If he happens to read this, maybe he will learn to broaden his horizons a little and not be so fast to "assume" everyone has an agenda or is up to something. I told him from the start what my intentions were in joining this forum: It was to post Marl's picks, pre-market and let everyone as a group analyze them. Then, somehow, it turned into a contest between Aiki vs. Marl. Aiki set the rules himself, I counter-offered, he counter-offered my counter-offer and we agreed to have a 20 pick contest.

I guess Aiki has no desire to finish this, or pay for the item of my choice out of the forum bookstore.

IMO I have already won (since he voluntarily quit, told me to pick my prize and submit to Thierry) but apparently his word was no good on him picking up the tab on the prize of my choice either.

Hmmmmm...What is the definition of scam: promising one thing, for a price, and never delivering (kind of like the "contest" Aiki and I had...huh?)

I guess that puts Aiki and DoublingStocks in the same boat, huh?

[reef]

Hmmmmm...What is the definition of scam: promising one thing, for a price, and never delivering (kind of like the "contest" Aiki and I had...huh?)

I guess that puts Aiki and DoublingStocks in the same boat, huh?

No it doesnt, just because you have not gotten a quick response doesnt mean a thing. Im sure Aiki is a man of his word.

[aiki14]

Gee, I don't know. Does that rule apply or does Aiki's withdrawing from the contest apply. Below is a copy/paste that he wrote:

Quote:
Originally Posted by aiki14
I withdraw my pick and withdraw from the contest. Pick your prize, Thierry can reach me by e-mail as to how I will be able to get it to you.
Good Luck, I hope you and the DS folks get what you deserve.


Apparently, if you enter a "contest" with Aiki, you can change the rules to suite yourself. I guess if he gets all that paint off his hands and ever returns to the forum, we will know what the latest rules are. {According to Aiki}

Side note: In all fairness to the "Marl" program that so graciously kicked Aiki's a**, the stocks given out by "Marl" were in the opening price range of $1.58(APT) - $4.36 (GMST). Hardly the type of stocks that can be "manipulated" as suggested by Aiki.

The last stock pick that Aiki picked (.12 PPS) is very easy to "manipulate" or "paint/fight the tape." As pointed out by me yesterday, I knew this was going to be his last ditch effort to win this "contest," It was evident to me that he had tried to this several times during the day when his pick CSTI amazing went from an ask price of .12 to .17/.19/.20/.17 respectively in lots of 1000 shares each.

In fact the "official" last sale price of .12 which was recorded on Yahoo.finance and Nasdaq.com was the closing price for his stock CSTI yesterday, so I guess his last minute attempt to paint the tape failed for him yesterday. IMO.....It's strange to me that someone would try anything in their capacity to claim "Marl is a scam" without one ounce of proof. Some say that the DS newsletter/email is a scam, but it is very clear the "game" they are playing. If you're not sure, just read the lengthy disclaimer on the bottom of their website as well as the emails they send out weekly.

No doubt Aiki is more "savy", as he puts it, then most when it comes to the stock market. But when it comes to his demeanor, that holds alot to be desired. If he happens to read this, maybe he will learn to broaden his horizons a little and not be so fast to "assume" everyone has an agenda or is up to something. I told him from the start what my intentions were in joining this forum: It was to post Marl's picks, pre-market and let everyone as a group analyze them. Then, somehow, it turned into a contest between Aiki vs. Marl. Aiki set the rules himself, I counter-offered, he counter-offered my counter-offer and we agreed to have a 20 pick contest.

I guess Aiki has no desire to finish this, or pay for the item of my choice out of the forum bookstore.

IMO I have already won (since he voluntarily quit, told me to pick my prize and submit to Thierry) but apparently his word was no good on him picking up the tab on the prize of my choice either.

Hmmmmm...What is the definition of scam: promising one thing, for a price, and never delivering (kind of like the "contest" Aiki and I had...huh?)

I guess that puts Aiki and DoublingStocks in the same boat, huh?


Guess again, I withdrew that's true, I just couldn't lower myself to your level, your unfounded accusations notwithstanding.
I also admit to being unable to beat you/Marl at it's own game. Oh well.
The original deal was that I would buy you any book or video in the bookstore. So I have acquired what you requested. How would you like me to send it to you?

As to your post, you do have an agenda, you are up to something, and in the last sentence you admit DS is a scam.

Please respond in the next half hour so the folks here can be done with the both of us.

[Jelly]

Nobody gets anything till I get my book that I won 2.5 months ago.

[MoreYummy]

Which book you are referring to?
Do I get mine also? :mrgreen:

[AJLightning]

Love ya MaryKay :thefinger:

(embedding disabled - you have to click anywhere OUTSIDE the play button)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uqxo1SKB0z8&feature=bz302

[microhedge]

Link doesn't work for me AJ... and I KNOW it has to be worth watching!!!!

re-post maybe...

OR was it disabled?

[AJLightning]

Link doesn't work for me AJ... and I KNOW it has to be worth watching!!!!

re-post maybe...

OR was it disabled?


Oh...well that sucks.
Anyway, it was "Beat It" by M. Jackson!!!

:proud:

[Thierry Martin]

The link works but they disabled embedding so you have to click anywhere outside the the play button to get to the video. Reload the page if you already clicked the play button.

[englishman26]

It's very sad indeed that Aiki has left over this stupid contest! (Especially as he lost on the basis of stupid CXTI which I originally alerted people to - albeit I wasn't a buyer at 0.31 but the rules of this game are very restrictive).

And it appears Luc1grunt has been banned! What's up with that??

[reef]

And it appears Luc1grunt has been banned! What's up with that??

Again? What the hell?

[freakscene]

And it appears Luc1grunt has been banned! What's up with that??


it doesnt make any sense to ban posters who help those who want to learn by offering sound advice, and real world examples in posts.

without Luc as a source this board is lesser in quality

[Thierry Martin]

It's very sad indeed that Aiki has left over this stupid contest! (Especially as he lost on the basis of stupid CXTI which I originally alerted people to - albeit I wasn't a buyer at 0.31 but the rules of this game are very restrictive).

And it appears Luc1grunt has been banned! What's up with that??

Luc1Grunt was never banned, he quit the forum the other day when aiki14 lost the MARL contest.

[Thierry Martin]

it doesnt make any sense to ban posters who help those who want to learn by offering sound advice, and real world examples in posts.

without Luc as a source this board is lesser in quality


Nobody banned him, he banned himself.

Many people have come and gone here since we started, it's always a shame to lose someone, but someone new always appears.

[freakscene]

Luc1Grunt was never banned, he quit the forum the other day when aiki14 lost the MARL contest.

wait.

so, aiki is to blame ?

j/k

;)

[Thierry Martin]

wait.

so, aiki is to blame ?

j/k

;)

Luc1Grunt sent me the message that he was quitting the forum a few minutes after Aiki14 announced he was taking a break. Maybe it is just a coincidence. I wouldn't call it "blame" but it may have something to do with it.

[Spa City Hawg]

Thierry, Now that this things is over; I think you should trash this thread I don't want to see it any more.

[Thierry Martin]

When people stop posting it will fade into history as newer threads rise to the top.

[MoreYummy]

Exactly. Finally it ends. :D

[Keventerprises]

Dear Aiki,
I am sad that things went to hell while I was away. I truly hope that you will not leave, and that this will not be the final outcome of the contest. That would be an unfitting end and a great loss for us all to have such a worthy contributor as you leave because of this. Please know, Aiki, that we greatly respect you and you would be sorely missed. I hope that you will have a vision while you are in Maui, when you have some time to reflect on what is truly important. You and your spirit are very important to us, and we hope that will outweigh your considering to leave. That would be the greatest loss of all, for you not to share with us your knowledge. I hope that your abilities and desire of sharing with us will outweigh this setback and that your greatest pride and satisfaction lies in your duty to share your knowledge. I have always tried to learn and grow from adversity, just as the wind on the trees makes them stronger.

With much respect,

Kevin

[Thierry Martin]

There are too many threads about DoublingStocks, and the challenge in this thread is over, and people are still posting vile comments about each other, so I deleted the last few exchanges and I have locked this thread. If you really need to talk about this subject please use one of the other threads, such as this one:

http://www.onlinetradersforum.com/showthread.php?t=17434