Stock Pick Services, Scams or Not?

[aiki14]

I am going to make the case for scam. I am not going to pick on any one since I believe they are all a waste of your money at best and an out and out criminal enterprise at worst.

My premise is as follows:

As "Pay for service" entities they are out to make money.
If you have a system that accurately predicts stock movements over time, the most profitable thing to do is invest your own money in those positions (think Buffett) or to actively manage other peoples money in the positions (think Hedge Funds) while keeping your methodology, and actual positions, a closely guarded secret.
If a company is clearly the former (pay for service), yet elects not to be the latter (most profitable), there must be a reason. The first and most obvious is that they do not possess a predictive methodology, and must therefore do something else to make money. Second, maybe they are just really nice people who want you to be rich.
Occams razor certainly hints at the answer.

When I get back in the states and have more time I will demonstrate how these entities appear to be successful, and why they are just a modified ponzi scheme that must at some point collapse under their own weight. A point of interest is how many of them have a multi year record of success.

I wonder if any of the folks who have given these companies their money will defend them on a motivational level. Explain where my premise is erroneous as opposed to saying they made X amount on this trade or that.

[Bman409]

I'd say that stock picking services are no more of a "scam" than financial planning services.


Same thing. Not everyone can be an expert in all fields.


Same thing with a show like Jim Cramer's Mad Money. What's the point of his show? Why doesn't he just go back to running a hedge fund. As you say, its would be more profitable.

The answer is because there are alot of regulations involved in running a hedge fund.

I think some people like to educate others, as well. If you think about it, the same thing could be said about anyone who writes a "how to" book.

[kingfisher]

Bman

From what I have experinced with Financial Planers is: They explain the choices, usally Mutual Funds in depth. The person still has to make there OWN Choice as to what they want to invest in if any. Compared to someone picking stocks and promising you huge gains. IMO the only sure Gain is for them with the cash you gave them!

[reef]

LOL, this will be an interesting thread. They are scams. Maybe a few lucky picks here and there but i would never trust it.

[Bman409]

Bman

From what I have experinced with Financial Planers is: They explain the choices, usally Mutual Funds in depth. The person still has to make there OWN Choice as to what they want to invest in if any. Compared to someone picking stocks and promising you huge gains. IMO the only sure Gain is for them with the cash you gave them!

Well, if someone is offering you a SURE GAIN, its a scam

No matter what.

That's for sure.

I think of a stock picking service as what Jim Cramer does, or actually, what many of us do on this board.

It simply brings your attention to stocks that you might not know about

[netwrangler]

Of course paid stock-picking services are scams.

I worry about folks who steadfastly defend these services.

Are they in league with the scams?
Are they just naive?

Well, I guess it's possible to be both.

[Bman409]

Of course paid stock-picking services are scams.

I worry about folks who steadfastly defend these services.

Are they in league with the scams?
Are they just naive?

Well, I guess it's possible to be both.

Well, I write a stock picking newsletter which I sell for a fee... so I'm clearly in league with them.. or at least I'm in league with my own service :)


Bman

[TonyM]

Well, I write a stock picking newsletter which I sell for a fee... so I'm clearly in league with them.. or at least I'm in league with my own service :)


Bman

This explains your bias on the subject. Now, the important difference (assuming there is one) between what you are doing and what the stock trading robot is doing, lies in how you advertise your newsletter and any promises made?

[netwrangler]

Well, I write a stock picking newsletter which I sell for a fee... so I'm clearly in league with them.. or at least I'm in league with my own service :)


Bman
Yup.

[kingfisher]

Well, I write a stock picking newsletter which I sell for a fee... so I'm clearly in league with them.. or at least I'm in league with my own service :)


Bman


I would like to see what Education Level you have and any other job experiance you have that makes you any different from the robot.




There is a Fool somewhere that parts with his money everyday!

[Thierry Martin]

I would like to see what Education Level you have and any other job experiance you have that makes you any different from the robot.
There is a Fool somewhere that parts with his money everyday!

Have you met some real life traders? I'm not saying Bman409 is uneducated, but a lot of traders I've met (I'm talking about people who make a good living at it) are more "street smart" than formally educated. I doubt "education" is really relevant. Good traders or stock pickers are good at that, not English literature or whatever.

[kingfisher]

Thieery you point is well noted.

But on the other hand would you Fly on an Aircraft that someone built in there Basement? If he is selling the info. I would want to see some of the things I mentioned before I purchased It.

How about a track record of the News Letter for the last 2 years as AiKi mentioned in the very first post.

I am just asking, not accuseing!

[mthompson]

I also wonder if this newsletter allows any kind of feedback to be viewed by other members/subscribers?

The site I've mentioned in the other thread is very prompt in deleting any - and I mean even remotely - negative comments from their forum. So any new visitor is always looking at a board full of praises, posted gains, "made $$$" and "paid my membership fee on very first trade" kind of posts.

[Bman409]

This explains your bias on the subject. Now, the important difference (assuming there is one) between what you are doing and what the stock trading robot is doing, lies in how you advertise your newsletter and any promises made?

I don't advertise

Its word of mouth

That and my signature here

[Bman409]

BTW, the newsletter isn't my full time job, by any means.. its something that started back in 2000, and I've been doing it ever since... Same basic core group of subscribers.. Its nothing major and as I said, I don't even advertise it.


I have found that most people that post on internet boards about stocks are independent and skeptical. Therefore, they're hostile to the idea that someone is selling stock ideas. They typically wouldn't pay for such a thing, yet there are our people out there that do, and are glad to get them

All I do with my newsletter is do profiles of stocks that I find. I give you a reason why I'm bullish or bearish, an entry price, a stop loss price and a target price... That way (unlike Cramer) I'm not giving people vague advice like, "I'd buy it if it comes in a little here" or "you should have took some off the table when it hit $50"


This forumn actually proves that people like Cramer (who also offers a pay service) are indeed quite popular


Bob Brinker is another one, that does a free radio show and has a paid "market timer" newsletter

and a product won't stay around for very long if it continually disappoints its customers

[TonyM]

I don't advertise

Its word of mouth

That and my signature here

If that is the extent and you do not claim outrageous gains, etc, etc, then I do not think your newsletter is what Aiki14 was referring to specifically. I doubt that we (as a group) could debate whether your newsletter is worth the investment without the debate turning personal at some point, so I won't start down that road. However your paid service link in your signature seems to be free advertising at Thierry's expense. Of course he may have consented to this and if so then there is nothing wrong with it, in fact being open about your endeavor deflects any accusation of a hidden agenda.

[Bman409]

If that is the extent and you do not claim outrageous gains, etc, etc, then I do not think your newsletter is what Aiki14 was referring to specifically. I doubt that we (as a group) could debate whether your newsletter is worth the investment without the debate turning personal at some point, so I won't start down that road. However your paid service link in your signature seems to be free advertising at Thierry's expense. Of course he may have consented to this and if so then there is nothing wrong with it, in fact being open about your endeavor deflects any accusation of a hidden agenda.



If he doesn't want it there, I'll take it down


No biggie.



I like to think that I contribute enough posts here to make it worth his while for him to tolerate me

[TonyM]

If he doesn't want it there, I'll take it down


No biggie.



I like to think that I contribute enough posts here to make it worth his while for him to tolerate me

That is between the both of you, like I said it provides a level of transparency which I view as positive.

[Bman409]

If that is the extent and you do not claim outrageous gains, etc, etc, then I do not think your newsletter is what Aiki14 was referring to specifically. I doubt that we (as a group) could debate whether your newsletter is worth the investment without the debate turning personal at some point, so I won't start down that road. However your paid service link in your signature seems to be free advertising at Thierry's expense. Of course he may have consented to this and if so then there is nothing wrong with it, in fact being open about your endeavor deflects any accusation of a hidden agenda.

I don't take anything on the internet personally, since I'm just "Bman409" here.. what's there to be offended about?


In any case, I've never subscribed to a stock newsletter and I probably never would, unless the person was giving me specific stocks with specific trading strategies.

Then, I might do that.. if I lacked the means and/or time to screen for stocks myself, and do the research.


For example, I personally probably look at 200-300 charts of individual stocks each night.. and probably 200 more in Canada... I like doing that.. That allows me to see what is hot, and what isn't.. what is working and what isn't

Then I have maybe 20 different watch lists that I maintain as well.. in things like Ag business, water infrastructure, solar power, uranium, gold and silver, war related stocks, bird flu stocks, etc, etc...

that way if I see something heating up, I can go to my list and see if there is anything I like, for the next week or two...

I read many websites including Clearstation, Stockhouse.ca, Kitco, This one, and Yahoo message boards to try to keep in tune to the "buzz" of what traders are talking about...

in addition, I watch the businessness news and use Google news search to search for things like Water shortage, "uranium", "cadium telluride", "food shortage", etc, etc....

Finally, I scan Nasdaq.com about once a week for IPOs, to see what's new out there

Now if someone wants to pay me for that service, they know where to find me... Some people do feel its worth it

others would prefer to use their own methods and its not for them.

[Albert0373]

For example, I personally probably look at 200-300 charts of individual stocks each night.. and probably 200 more in Canada... I like doing that.. That allows me to see what is hot, and what isn't.. what is working and what isn't

Then I have maybe 20 different watch lists that I maintain as well.. in things like Ag business, water infrastructure, solar power, uranium, gold and silver, war related stocks, bird flu stocks, etc, etc...


8O Take out the two 0's of the number of charts you look at and that's what I've been doing lately...so much things to do, so little time.

[Bman409]

8O Take out the two 0's of the number of charts you look at and that's what I've been doing lately...so much things to do, so little time.

Investertech.com is great for creating watch lists and screening for stocks


its a pay service, of course... so it might not be all that popular here ;)

pretty cheap though.. $15 per month or something.

[TonyM]

I don't take anything on the internet personally, since I'm just "Bman409" here.. what's there to be offended about?


In any case, I've never subscribed to a stock newsletter and I probably never would, unless the person was giving me specific stocks with specific trading strategies.

Then, I might do that.. if I lacked the means and/or time to screen for stocks myself, and do the research.


For example, I personally probably look at 200-300 charts of individual stocks each night.. and probably 200 more in Canada... I like doing that.. That allows me to see what is hot, and what isn't.. what is working and what isn't

Then I have maybe 20 different watch lists that I maintain as well.. in things like Ag business, water infrastructure, solar power, uranium, gold and silver, war related stocks, bird flu stocks, etc, etc...

that way if I see something heating up, I can go to my list and see if there is anything I like, for the next week or two...

I read many websites including Clearstation, Stockhouse.ca, Kitco, This one, and Yahoo message boards to try to keep in tune to the "buzz" of what traders are talking about...

in addition, I watch the businessness news and use Google news search to search for things like Water shortage, "uranium", "cadium telluride", "food shortage", etc, etc....

Finally, I scan Nasdaq.com about once a week for IPOs, to see what's new out there

Now if someone wants to pay me for that service, they know where to find me... Some people do feel its worth it

others would prefer to use their own methods and its not for them.

Fair enough, sounds like capitalism without the dishonesty that many stock pickers seem attracted to.

[Thierry Martin]

... However your paid service link in your signature seems to be free advertising at Thierry's expense. Of course he may have consented to this and if so then there is nothing wrong with it, in fact being open about your endeavor deflects any accusation of a hidden agenda.

I don't have a problem with home pages, commercial sites, etc. in signatures or even in context in a post as long as there is participation in the forum and the advertising element is not out of control. A simple link is fine.

[Bman409]

Fair enough, sounds like capitalism without the dishonesty that many stock pickers seem attracted to.

Yeah, and trust me.. I see that too

I get the Daily Reckoning email newsletter (free) and every so often they'll send you these blatant ads saying things like "746% guaranteed"



as soon you read that phrase, you know you can delete the rest of it

No one can guarantee returns in the market. its impossible. I'd stay far far away from anything like that

[kingfisher]

Bman

I commend you on your honest responces! Seriousely

[Bman409]

Bman

I commend you on your honest responces! Seriousely

Well thank you!

Much appreciated.

[aiki14]

I'd say that stock picking services are no more of a "scam" than financial planning services.


Same thing. Not everyone can be an expert in all fields.


Same thing with a show like Jim Cramer's Mad Money. What's the point of his show? Why doesn't he just go back to running a hedge fund. As you say, its would be more profitable.

The answer is because there are alot of regulations involved in running a hedge fund.

I think some people like to educate others, as well. If you think about it, the same thing could be said about anyone who writes a "how to" book.

I disagree on your point regarding financial planning services, as they are regulated, and to be a CFP one needs at least to be educated in the theories and practices of the craft. There may be financial planners who are incompetent or criminal but at least they can be held to a standard, and prosecuted if they give specific advice to a client that proves to be unethical.

I also mean no disrespect to you, nor do I include you in the group I seek to point out. I see a huge difference between screening a bunch of stocks and pointing out to interested parties what it is you see as positive or negative, and touting a stock and offering no such reason. The former is saving the customer a step in his DD, and then allowing him to do the rest. The latter lends itself to being a scam. If you are offering the stock in such a naked fashion, and you were reputable and licensed, you could solicit investors and manage their money as an independent financial advisor. These stock picker bots get around SEC regs by not offering specific advice to specific clients, and therefore make no warrantees on the suitability of the advice for the individual himself. If they fail they close up shop and change their name and start again.

Running a hedge fund, being a financial advisor, or financial planner is stressful, and forces one into a fiduciary relationship. Running a stockpicker Bot is an easy way out of the training and responsibility necessary to do those jobs. I have found that the easy way is fine for the retired, the lazy or the scammer, I'll take my advice from someone who has done it the hard way. Not a guarantee, but sensible IMO when my hard earned is one the line.

[Luc1Grunt]

I disagree on your point regarding financial planning services, as they are regulated, and to be a CFP one needs at least to be educated in the theories and practices of the craft. There may be financial planners who are incompetent or criminal but at least they can be held to a standard, and prosecuted if they give specific advice to a client that proves to be unethical.

I also mean no disrespect to you, nor do I include you in the group I seek to point out. I see a huge difference between screening a bunch of stocks and pointing out to interested parties what it is you see as positive or negative, and touting a stock and offering no such reason. The former is saving the customer a step in his DD, and then allowing him to do the rest. The latter lends itself to being a scam. If you are offering the stock in such a naked fashion, and you were reputable and licensed, you could solicit investors and manage their money as an independent financial advisor. These stock picker bots get around SEC regs by not offering specific advice to specific clients, and therefore make no warrantees on the suitability of the advice for the individual himself. If they fail they close up shop and change their name and start again.

Running a hedge fund, being a financial advisor, or financial planner is stressful, and forces one into a fiduciary relationship. Running a stockpicker Bot is an easy way out of the training and responsibility necessary to do those jobs. I have found that the easy way is fine for the retired, the lazy or the scammer, I'll take my advice from someone who has done it the hard way. Not a guarantee, but sensible IMO when my hard earned is one the line.

Post of the day. I'll have to "pop" this at the close of 2008. How many of those chasing these picks will be around then?

GRUNT

[netwrangler]

Of course paid stock-picking services are scams.

I worry about folks who steadfastly defend these services.

Are they in league with the scams?
Are they just naive?

Well, I guess it's possible to be both.

Well, I write a stock picking newsletter which I sell for a fee... so I'm clearly in league with them.. or at least I'm in league with my own service :)

Bman

This explains your bias on the subject. Now, the important difference (assuming there is one) between what you are doing and what the stock trading robot is doing, lies in how you advertise your newsletter and any promises made?Well, Bman, if TonyM can cut you more slack than I did, perhaps I should write a more measured response.

Under the general category of exchanging money for information, I see a number of sub-categories.

Picks:
These are the folks who say "Buy This!" They point to [anecdotal] evidence of huge profits made buy customers. They may or may not say that your profit is guaranteed. They certainly imply that by following their picks you, too, will be wealthy beyond your dreams, and with little or no effort. Just pay the money and follow instructions. I have yet to find one of these that wasn't what I consider a scam.
Advice:
Folks who sell advice run the gamut from scammers to sages. Unfortunately, the distribution curve is skewed away from sages and toward scammers and/or incompetents. IMO, whether an advisor is a scammer depends on intent. Mere incompetence is neither a necessary nor sufficient condition.

The distinction I am drawing between the pickers and the advisors is in the information content. Advisors need to offer some rationale for their advice. Some of them just look at the market. Some of them link the advice to client goals. The best of them actually interview their clients and dispense advice tailored to the individual client.

Note: there are numerous sales folks masquerading as advisors. Usually, you don't pay them up front, you just buy the product.
Research:
The archetypical research service, in my view, is Morningstar. They give you some thoughts and tools for free. They offer another level of research for an annual fee. They are not trying to sell a product other than their own research. [Well, nevermind the click ads on the site.]

Lumped in this group are folks like Value Line, as well as many boutique shops. The difference between a 'research' service and an 'advisory' service, in my view, is the extent to which they tout their own opinions. Morningstar [M*] defines the boundary well. They state their buy, sell, and fair [target] prices for a stock, and present their reasoning behind the numbers. Then they state the standard [and, imo, correct] disclaimer that every investor should do their own DD both to validate the M* view, and to ensure this view is appropriate to the individual investor.

The question, in my view, is, "What is the value added of a pay-for-research site, over and above the reaseach available from your broker, and for free on the web?" Of course, this raises the question of the quality of research you are getting from your broker.
Education:
While many information sites have an education component, there are some where education, especially education for a fee, is the primary focus. Given the lineage of teachers in my family tree, it is hard for me to talk against any 'educational' site. That said, I urge all to shop the educational offerings. Many $M courses are offered on other sites for free. It is rare that you need to pay big bucks for education — especially if you have not previously availed yourself of the free sites.
Software:
Financial information software runs the gamut from "really neat" to "total scam " I like Luc1Grunt's basic assumption that one shouldn't have to pay for anything. But there are things I pay for.

I popped for Peter Hoadley's option analysis software — appearing as add-ins to Excel. There are some very good software tools available for free on that site.

I would not 'pop' for a program that just gave me stock picks. There are some 'scams' in this area too.
So, Bman, it is unfair of me to imply that you and your newsletter are at the low end of this lot. As TonyM says, it all depends on what you promise and how you promote. Also, as Thierry points out, many folks really need advice, and hope to find it at a site like the OTF.

Still, the question is, "Is the client receiving full value for the money spent?"
In most cases, and in most categories, I think the answer is, "No."
That doesn't speak to your specific newsletter.
You may be delivering value — in fact, I certainly hope so.

[Luc1Grunt]

Well, Bman, if TonyM can cut you more slack than I did, perhaps I should write a more measured response.

Under the general category of exchanging money for information, I see a number of sub-categories.



Picks:These are the folks who say "Buy This!" They point to [anecdotal] evidence of huge profits made buy customers. They may or may not say that your profit is guaranteed. They certainly imply that by following their picks you, too, will be wealthy beyond your dreams, and with little or no effort. Just pay the money and follow instructions. I have yet to find one of these that wasn't what I consider a scam.Advice:Folks who sell advice run the gamut from scammers to sages. Unfortunately, the distribution curve is skewed away from sages and toward scammers and/or incompetents. IMO, whether an advisor is a scammer depends on intent. Mere incompetence is neither a necessary nor sufficient condition.

The distinction I am drawing between the pickers and the advisors is in the information content. Advisors need to offer some rationale for their advice. Some of them just look at the market. Some of them link the advice to client goals. The best of them actually interview their clients and dispense advice tailored to the individual client.

Note: there are numerous sales folks masquerading as advisors. Usually, you don't pay them up front, you just buy the product.Research:The archetypical research service, in my view, is Morningstar. They give you some thoughts and tools for free. They offer another level of research for an annual fee. They are not trying to sell a product other than their own research. [Well, nevermind the click ads on the site.]

Lumped in this group are folks like Value Line, as well as many boutique shops. The difference between a 'research' service and an 'advisory' service, in my view, is the extent to which they tout their own opinions. Morningstar [M*] defines the boundary well. They state their buy, sell, and fair [target] prices for a stock, and present their reasoning behind the numbers. Then they state the standard [and, imo, correct] disclaimer that every investor should do their own DD both to validate the M* view, and to ensure this view is appropriate to the individual investor.

The question, in my view, is, "What is the value added of a pay-for-research site, over and above the reaseach available from your broker, and for free on the web?" Of course, this raises the question of the quality of research you are getting from your broker. Education:While many information sites have an education component, there are some where education, especially education for a fee, is the primary focus. Given the lineage of teachers in my family tree, it is hard for me to talk against any 'educational' site. That said, I urge all to shop the educational offerings. Many $M courses are offered on other sites for free. It is rare that you need to pay big bucks for education — especially if you have not previously availed yourself of the free sites.Software:Financial information software runs the gamut from "really neat" to "total scam " I like Luc1Grunt's basic assumption that one shouldn't have to pay for anything. But there are things I pay for.

I popped for Peter Hoadley's option analysis software — appearing as add-ins to Excel. There are some very good software tools available for free on that site.

I would not 'pop' for a program that just gave me stock picks. There are some 'scams' in this area too.So, Bman, it is unfair of me to imply that you and your newsletter are at the low end of this lot. As TonyM says, it all depends on what you promise and how you promote. Also, as Thierry points out, many folks really need advice, and hope to find it at a site like the OTF.

Still, the question is, "Is the client receiving full value for the money spent?"
In most cases, and in most categories, I think the answer is, "No."
That doesn't speak to your specific newsletter.
You may be delivering value — in fact, I certainly hope so.

I pay for tools and subscriptions as you know. I don't pay anyone or any "thing" to tell me what to buy. If I did, I would have "them" to blame for "taking MY money". I'd rather that responsibility be left for me. My money-my decisions.

[Bman409]

Well, Bman, if TonyM can cut you more slack than I did, perhaps I should write a more measured response.

Under the general category of exchanging money for information, I see a number of sub-categories.

Picks:
These are the folks who say "Buy This!" They point to [anecdotal] evidence of huge profits made buy customers. They may or may not say that your profit is guaranteed. They certainly imply that by following their picks you, too, will be wealthy beyond your dreams, and with little or no effort. Just pay the money and follow instructions. I have yet to find one of these that wasn't what I consider a scam.
Advice:
Folks who sell advice run the gamut from scammers to sages. Unfortunately, the distribution curve is skewed away from sages and toward scammers and/or incompetents. IMO, whether an advisor is a scammer depends on intent. Mere incompetence is neither a necessary nor sufficient condition.

The distinction I am drawing between the pickers and the advisors is in the information content. Advisors need to offer some rationale for their advice. Some of them just look at the market. Some of them link the advice to client goals. The best of them actually interview their clients and dispense advice tailored to the individual client.

Note: there are numerous sales folks masquerading as advisors. Usually, you don't pay them up front, you just buy the product.
Research:
The archetypical research service, in my view, is Morningstar. They give you some thoughts and tools for free. They offer another level of research for an annual fee. They are not trying to sell a product other than their own research. [Well, nevermind the click ads on the site.]

Lumped in this group are folks like Value Line, as well as many boutique shops. The difference between a 'research' service and an 'advisory' service, in my view, is the extent to which they tout their own opinions. Morningstar [M*] defines the boundary well. They state their buy, sell, and fair [target] prices for a stock, and present their reasoning behind the numbers. Then they state the standard [and, imo, correct] disclaimer that every investor should do their own DD both to validate the M* view, and to ensure this view is appropriate to the individual investor.

The question, in my view, is, "What is the value added of a pay-for-research site, over and above the reaseach available from your broker, and for free on the web?" Of course, this raises the question of the quality of research you are getting from your broker.
Education:
While many information sites have an education component, there are some where education, especially education for a fee, is the primary focus. Given the lineage of teachers in my family tree, it is hard for me to talk against any 'educational' site. That said, I urge all to shop the educational offerings. Many $M courses are offered on other sites for free. It is rare that you need to pay big bucks for education — especially if you have not previously availed yourself of the free sites.
Software:
Financial information software runs the gamut from "really neat" to "total scam " I like Luc1Grunt's basic assumption that one shouldn't have to pay for anything. But there are things I pay for.

I popped for Peter Hoadley's option analysis software — appearing as add-ins to Excel. There are some very good software tools available for free on that site.

I would not 'pop' for a program that just gave me stock picks. There are some 'scams' in this area too.
So, Bman, it is unfair of me to imply that you and your newsletter are at the low end of this lot. As TonyM says, it all depends on what you promise and how you promote. Also, as Thierry points out, many folks really need advice, and hope to find it at a site like the OTF.

Still, the question is, "Is the client receiving full value for the money spent?"
In most cases, and in most categories, I think the answer is, "No."
That doesn't speak to your specific newsletter.
You may be delivering value — in fact, I certainly hope so.




That's a good post, and I tend to agree with you.

I didn't take any of it personally. I'm just chiming in with my opinion on the subject.

No one in this thread has been offensive or insulting in the least, in my opinion.

As I said, my newsletter is more of a hobby than anything. I'm certainly not getting rich off it. It's a long story how it got started to begin with, and frankly, I make more money trading my own account than I do with the newsletter. I've thought about shutting it down but I have some readers who have been with me for about 8 years now , if you can believe that, so I'm actually keeping it going for their sake. In addition, I find that the DISCIPLINE of HAVING to do the research and write it all up in a usuable manner, including the target prices and stop loss orders actually MAKES MY TRADING BETTER. It helps me focus.

I was always one of those kids in school who never got around to writing a paper until I HAD TO.. then I usually got a good grade on it.. but I needed that discipline of a deadline, to force me to do it..

Thats kind of how it is with my newsletter.. it forces me to think out my trades and positions and do research that I might not, if I wasn't putting something in writing for someone else to read.

Regards... I'm off to finish tonight's edition

Bman