It's true: Iraq is a quagmire..... for Al Quada.

[BuyOnDips]

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/07322/834685-373.stm

Kind of sad that Iraq is improving greatly, yet the liberal press doesn't want you to know about it. They hype the negatives and ignore the positives. Shame on them.

http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=YTNmM2RmY2Y5NWNhZTlmYjMzOWU5NzNjNjJmNDBlZjI=

[TonyM]

Depends on who you believe, as always.

Have you seen Battleground on Showtime? Good documentary illustrating the human part of the equation.

[BuyOnDips]

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,22765870-16382,00.html

"The anti-war, anti-American Left should be ashamed, but precisely for this reason they continue to look away when Iraq doesn't fail in the way they wish. The success of the surge has become their inconvenient truth."

[TonyM]

Ah, the old Bush standby...support my views or you're anti-American.

[TonyM]

Here's a little clip form Battleground (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oX-NvdhOmQM) It's worth 6 minutes to check out and the entire documentary is worth watching also.

[netwrangler]

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/07322/834685-373.stm

Kind of sad that Iraq is improving greatly, yet the liberal press doesn't want you to know about it. They hype the negatives and ignore the positives. Shame on them.

http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=YTNmM2RmY2Y5NWNhZTlmYjMzOWU5NzNjNjJmNDBlZjI=
Your links indicate that Al-Qaida, especially in the form of Ben-Laden, did not benefit politically in Iraq from the Iraq war.

Well, doh...

Ben-Laden wasn't a factor in Iraq in the first place. He was in Afghanistan. We left the real nexus there to waste time, money, and lives in Iraq. This is the greatest foreign-policy blunder in the history of the United States. We now have this 'slight problem' that Pakistan – a nuclear power – might have its government overthrown by folks whose political outlooks are much closer to Ben-Laden than to Bush.

Can't do anything about that, of course. All our resources are tied up in Iraq where we have ensured there are 'no gains' for Ben-Laden. Oh, we are "so" smart!

BTW: Automatically linking "anti-war" and "anti-American" is, in itself, anti-American — at least the way I read the Constitution...something about Freedom of Speech.

[netwrangler]

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,22765870-16382,00.html

"The anti-war, anti-American Left should be ashamed, but precisely for this reason they continue to look away when Iraq doesn't fail in the way they wish. The success of the surge has become their inconvenient truth."What about the anti-war, pro-American center?

Well, from your perspective, I guess everything is 'Left'. Too bad you have to see life through such a distorting filter.

[BuyOnDips]

Even the gravediggers are losing money. :) That has to piss of the Democrats and the MSM. :)

http://www.reuters.com/article/middleeastCrisis/idUSL14223520

[aiki14]

$860 Billion so far and the best you can say is fewer innocent civilians are dying than last month, and we've managed to give 3000 of our kids lives to give a two bit organization that wasn't there in the first place a bit of a hard time. After all this time and money, who is closer to their objectives, them or us?
For the sake of argument let's assume the surge is working better than we hoped.
That said, this war, and it's astonishing mismanagement, and it's chickenhawk neocon progenitors, and this lame intellectually incurious president, and his henchmen, and the authors of the orwellian patriot act, and the other factions that under the umbrella of fear and paranoia unleashed the current neoplasia upon our country, will undoubtedly land upon the dungheep of history where even the perpetually misguided will recognize the foul stench of what they represent.

We here in the States are way too protected from the realities of what's going on in the world. We talk about the surge but why are we not seeing it on TV? Too graphic? We wouldn't want the delicate sensitivities of our citizenry to be fouled by seeing the trauma. And we here in our recliners are never gonna know what the smell and taste of it is like. So easy is it to send our kids into the muck when we don't smell it, for some diffuse bumper sticker sentiment as far from the "on the ground" reality as Voyager 1.
I hate the chickenhawks more than I can say in polite company. I hate what they have done to the country and the constitution in the name of security. I hate that doing things that would stun the founding fathers are being called patriotic. I hate the fact that Jefferson's vision is being twisted and Orwells proven out.
The founding fathers were at great risk of being hanged for what they were doing back there in Philly, the great generals in history were right there with their boys, the generation that saved the world in WWII made great sacrifices on the battlefield and at home, these risks and sacrifices are what led history to recognize their greatness. I see absolutely none of that in the current administration, or in the folks who promulgate this foolishness. The same guys who are sending our kids into harms way are whining about high taxes. Shut up, double our taxes, sell war bonds, convert the car factories to weapons plants, everyone pitch in and win this thing, the way we always have, as a country united in sacrifice and purpose, or get out.

[Albert0373]

Great insightful post Aiki. One thing that I read somewhere is the war would cost America $2.4 trillion by 2017.
Why the heck do hard-working tax paying citizens like you and me have to pay for 'democracy' in a completely foreign country? Beats me.

America is not at war.
The Marine Corps are at war;
America is at the mall,
and Congress is out to lunch.

[freakscene]

When I read the word "neo-con", i have to pause and wonder if the writer has ever called anyone on the left a "new-commie". ;)

just kidding aiki.

Why the heck do hard-working tax paying citizens like you and me have to pay for 'democracy' in a completely foreign country? Beats me

I wonder why hard working tax paying citizens have to pay for lots of things, like a million dollar 'hippie museum' in NY, just for starters........

[aiki14]

When I read the word "neo-con", i have to pause and wonder if the writer has ever called anyone on the left a "new-commie". ;)

just kidding aiki.



I thought they chose the term for themselves. I may be incorrect.
I may be a neolib, in that I am for taking out the thugs in the world, but not for giving up my liberties for some nebulous sense of security.

[freakscene]

Ah, the old Bush standby...support my views or you're anti-American.

Tony,

Can an argument be made that "democrats" for political purposes, especially in the House, have a vested interest in a US military defeat in Iraq?

I believe so.

[TonyM]

Tony,

Can an argument be made that "democrats" for political purposes, especially in the House, have a vested interest in a US military defeat in Iraq?

I believe so.

An argument can be made for any and everything, the important ones seem to sit quietly though. We can eliminate a lot of finger pointing and arguing in between the start and the present if we simply look back to the start:

According to international law, Bush has waged an illegal war...few arguments that come after that fact matter except for the argument of how we went from a democracy to a monarchy.

[microhedge]

The same guys who are sending our kids into harms way are whining about high taxes. Shut up, double our taxes, sell war bonds, convert the car factories to weapons plants, everyone pitch in and win this thing, the way we always have, as a country united in sacrifice and purpose, or get out.

Amen! Amen! Amen! Amen! Amen! Amen!

That deserves to be quoted.

[freakscene]

"International law" can quickly muddy an argument which is why I avoid it. UN resolutions blah blah blah.

From day one my position was a full declaration ought to be passed if they were going to proceed, which would have saved the administration many a debacle, and needlessly defensive positions; like wiretapping for one. It is the Constitutional way of doing it.

But Bill Clinton's Kosovo war was also illegal (not to mention he picked the wrong side ! ;) ) in the same regard, as was every one this country has "fought" since WWII.

That being said, I also consider it more of an oligarchy, than monarchy.

Bush/Clinton/Clinton/Bush/Bush..............H Clinton?/H Clinton?/J Bush?/ J Bush?/ :oops:

good grief this country is in trouble.