Long & Short at the same time?

[Flyboy]

Ok, so I'm experimenting here.

Since one can not long and short on the same platform, I have two. One with Schwab, the other with Tradestation. I tried to short ISRG on Schwab and it would'nt allow me, so I went short on TD and at the same time I went long ISRG on Schwab.

Why you may ask? Well, I believe ISRG will report poor earnings so I should benefit on the TD short. I also believe (and has proven to be) that the MM will pump up the stock before the earning report. I'm green long and red short at the moment.

The question is when to take the green off;)..while waiting for the reversal? Only playing with 100 shares as a beta.

Flame away as I'm interested in your thoughts.

[Ragewizard]

Not sure I understand you positional arrangement, but I go both long and short on a stock at the same time, at different brokers of course.

For example, I bought PCU last november, and have been adding to it pretty much on all the pullbacks. I'm holding the long positions for atleast a year, but no stock just goes straight up or down for that matter. In the short run, I am shorting PCU for around a month now, in fact, I am just about to cover the short position, and add to the long position again. I guess if I had only one account, I could sell all the long and go short right away until it is time to go long again, but I find it is easier this way so I can keep track of profits.

[Florida]

This strategy must be based on some of the new math that was taught well after I was out of school.

I cannot see any possible way that being long and short on the same stock at the same time can reap any benefit.

The only positive thing I can say, is that you are not risking the loss that some of the hair brained strategies I have seen posted in the past do.

If you are so intent on trading that you are long and short the same stock at the same time, perhaps you should read my post on over trading.

[fast]

The only time I’ve heard of this making sound financial sense is when you are in a losing position and can’t get out of it because the brokerage site is down. For example, if you go long on a stock and it begins to dive yet can’t sell because the site is down, then you can go short on another brokerage site to offset the loss.

[Flyboy]

Sometimes going short (or long for that matter), one may have to wait while the stock is in the oven. I've seen this often on many trades and if I'm right, then I'm making money going long while the timer is ticking down on the oven. Wish I can hit the high and low's, but i'm certainly not that good.

It's all about making money right? So, hopefully I'll see green on both sides of the trade? I'll probably exit the long by Friday if not tomorrow, so as it sits now, I'll be baking some green.

Also, as stated above, Schwab wouldn't allow me to short the stock:confused:...and TD did.

[Florida]

Sometimes going short (or long for that matter), one may have to wait while the stock is in the oven. I've seen this often on many trades and if I'm right, then I'm making money going long while the timer is ticking down on the oven. Wish I can hit the high and low's, but i'm certainly not that good.

It's all about making money right? So, hopefully I'll see green on both sides of the trade? I'll probably exit the long by Friday if not tomorrow, so as it sits now, I'll be baking some green.

Also, as stated above, Schwab wouldn't allow me to short the stock:confused:...and TD did.

But right now you are not baking anythin. For every dollar your long makes, you are loosing the same amount on your short.

[timmhaan]

i think this is tough to pull off. it is possible to lose money on both positions if your timing is off. you're also doubling your commission costs and tying up a lot more money.

[Ragewizard]

I agree, your not gaining anything with this method. I use it as a way to keep my long term strategies and short term strategies in line, but I know that I'm really not making money when I do this because I have both long and short going at the same time. I guess what Flyboy is saying is maybe he has a short that makes money for a month, but the long makes money in a year, that way he has both trades making money. I don't think he plans on having the long and short plays on the table for the same time period. If he does, he can go to vegas and play the change machine, and walk out legitimately saying he broke even.

[Flyboy]

But right now you are not baking anythin. For every dollar your long makes, you are loosing the same amount on your short.

Ok, I exited my long at 155.95 for a $624 bank (100 shares)..decided not to wait and that looked like a good move for once!

let's see where the short takes me in time and money? Holding 75 shares, but may add another 25? I liked the action on it today!

[aiki14]

You're better off exiting and switching than holding both. You add expense to the position and gain nothing. The only way to game this type of thing is to arb the spread and with spreads being a penny these days you'd have to be very fast and very flush or you're just spinning your wheels.

[yoyomama]

But right now you are not baking anythin. For every dollar your long makes, you are loosing the same amount on your short.
Okay I admit it, there's a whole lot I don't know...but how can this work?

That said...I've tried it before. I think Scottrade lets you go long & short on the same stock. You're up .25, you're down .25 plus the fees - I don't see how it could do anything.

[tlsurfsupper]

you can arb a correlated pair or arb the difference in ultras if you are fast enough. this would be true if you have the capital / leverage to execute 3000-5000 shares simultaneously. Since you are not a quant, I wouldn't go down that road.

You can use ETFs to include the ultras (2x). to both hedge a position while using the inverse to trade.

For example:

Say you are hedging some long swing or position trades with SDS. Maybe that position has a range (determined by you) of $12 to hedge the longs.

As you may be biased towards short term long, but hesitant as you are overall bearish...trade the SSO intra-day. You are effectively playing the intra swings while maintaining your overall hedge against a black swan / mini black swan plunge.

Same is true with any ETF regarding sectors.

I would stay away from 3x ETFs because of decay unless your basis position is short (ex. short SDS if you are bullish as opposed to long SSO). Then trade the oppositie intra-day.

Do the math of course.......it's your money.

Good Trading.

:)