How to be a trader for a company?

[jason_kbs]

Does anyone know how to be a junior trader for a company? I mean I know there’s a lot of positions for senior traders who earn a lot...but require so much experience.

I guess I m asking how do traders who want to make trading their job get started? what position do they take up when u have no experience...a stockbroker?

[aiki14]

Does anyone know how to be a junior trader for a company? I mean I know there’s a lot of positions for senior traders who earn a lot...but require so much experience.

I guess I m asking how do traders who want to make trading their job get started? what position do they take up when u have no experience...a stockbroker?

Get a degree in finance or mathmatics, graduate high in your ivy league school class and impress a bunch of vice presidents, then score really high on the psych test especially on the game theory part.
Most of the traders are doing stat/Arb (statistics and arbitrage) or analysis. They aren't going to let you trade equities any time soon.

[aiki14]

If anyone is really serious about trading for a living there are a couple outfits that will give you an effective 10x leverage. Here's the details.:
You put up a substantial sum of money (50k+), and go through the background checks etc.
Then they set you up with a trading platform, like a Thompson workstation or similar system and a T1 line. You'll be renting it. You can in some cases do it from their locations (they are in NY and a few other cities around the country)
They add 20x your investment.
You trade the acct and pay the commissions, then you split the profits 50-50. That's the way you get 10x leverage. If you take losses you split those as well, and you must keep the minimum amount of your own money in the acct all the time.

[Svenwulf]

failing the method aiki describes, try-

1. have a family member who is a trader. even today most traders likely get the foot in the door thanks to dad or an uncle.

2. save/ acquire your own capital. generate sustainable, documented gains. if in some way this has not cured your desire to work for another, consider simple licensing and incorporation constraints, secure some OPM, and open your own hedge fund. heck, its so easy, they even have books on it now.

[Patrick01]

I never did understand how being a math wiz applies to successful trading.

[madcowdisease]

Couldn't earning an MBA from a large institution with a strong alumni network and going through the traditional channels (working your way up) be just as good.

Aiki, your second post sounds extreme. Where might one learn more about this process?

[aiki14]

Couldn't earning an MBA from a large institution with a strong alumni network and going through the traditional channels (working your way up) be just as good.

Aiki, your second post sounds extreme. Where might one learn more about this process?

Don Bright was doing it for a while but I haven't seen anything from him in a couple years. There was also a guy named Schoenfeld out of NY who was doing it. It's been a few years since I was interested so I don't have the links.

[madcowdisease]

Don Bright was doing it for a while but I haven't seen anything from him in a couple years. There was also a guy named Schoenfeld out of NY who was doing it. It's been a few years since I was interested so I don't have the links.

Should I be familiar with these guys you mentioned?

[aiki14]

Should I be familiar with these guys you mentioned?

Maybe not as it's been a while. Brights website is not working
www.stocktrading.com
And I spelled Schonfeld incorrectly, the current guy to speak to there is Bob Nardone,
http://www.schonfeld.com/

[madcowdisease]

Your thoughts on the traditional route? I'm actually appplying for grad school this winter for fall 2008.

[aiki14]

The big money is in Stat/Arb, getting a PHD in Statistics is the best way in. Computer science is the next way as it takes a computer to run the analysis the stat guys use. MBA's are a dime a dozen in this world, you'll need something to separate yourself from the herd. A PHD in Finance would be a start.
Doing an internship with one of the big brokers in NY is a way to make some contacts. If there are any hedge funds in the area where you live try contacting them, you never know what might happen.
If you have the time and can get with a company that will sponsor you, getting your series 7 will be necessary to trade professionally.
Starting your own hedge fund may just be the easiest way, but you'll need to add a real sales component to your resume if you want to raise the necessary cash, and remember everyone that invests with you will have to pass the "Accredited Investor" requirements.

[Niketennis1]

Can anyone give me the ladder of best stock jobs? I know stockbroker would probably be low. If everything went perfect, I would love to run a hedge fund someday but you have to be a genius.

[aiki14]

Here's an actual add from this month's Trader Monthly Magazine:

US Markets Trader / Developer

Company: Gromwell I.T. inc
Location: USA-NY-New York City
Compensation: Salary & bonus completely open upto over $500k with bonuses
Years Experience: 1-3 yrs
Position Type: Employee
Employment type: Full time
Updated: 01 Aug 2007
eFC Ref no: 195647




Top tier Hedge Fund looking for a Trader/Developer. The role has multiple functions including execution, process improvement, trading analysis and strategy development.
The Trading function consists of executing trades in the US markets, trading all products including, but not limited to: convertible bonds, options, equities, currencies, etc.
The Developer function would require the candidate to assist in implementing/enhancing the electronic trading systems for futures and currencies. Responsibilities include:
• Working with the development team in defining new features/capabilities
• Certifying new markets and/or new brokers
• Testing new versions of the Electronic Trading System
The candidate would also be responsible for supporting the trading system during the US Markets shift. Daily responsibilities would include:
• Monitoring real time market feeds (GL and broker feeds), FIX connections and application tasks, performance of the different components of the Electronic Trading System
• Assisting in problem diagnosis and resolution (e.g. interact with broker help desk, review FIX Message Logs)
• Escalate Electronic Trading System issues to the development team for resolution
Job Requirements:
• 1-3 years financial industry experience, preferably some electronic trading experience
• Scripting knowledge (JAVAScript or VBScript or Perl)
• Prefer candidates with some C++ and/or JAVA programming experience
• Basic SQL knowledge
• A bachelors or masters degree in Mathematics, Engineering, Computer Science, Physics or Finance
For more information or to apply, contact Mark Shrem at mshrem@gromwellit.com. Mark Shrem specializes on placing talented Front Office and Quant Developers in the financial industry.

[aiki14]

Here's one that seems a bit more within reach:

Trading Assistant

Location: USA-GA-Atlanta
Compensation: Competitive
Years Experience: 1-3 yrs
Position Type: Employee
Employment type: Full time
Updated: 30 Jul 2007
eFC Ref no: 209091




An investment management firm headquartered in Atlanta is looking for a Trading Assistant


Job Description and Responsibilities:

Perform all necessary tasks to process tax trading requests. These functions include, but are not limited to prepping the account for tax trading, processing the required tax trades, and processing the reinvestment after the necessary period.
Perform daily, weekly and monthly reconciliation of cash and security positions between APL and custodian systems.
Research and resolve reconciliation discrepancies including trade and trade settlement issues, and other accounting transactions
Coordinate resolution of discrepancies with Operations Team as required
Maintain precise accounting data in portfolio management system to ensure accurate performance reporting
Assist with assigned projects
Work closely with Management to help create and implement efficiencies, escalate and recommend process improvements.
Assist traders with various trading reports and functions including but not limited to new account setup and maintenance, monitoring model drifts, and maintenance of trading log and rotation.

Job Qualifications:

A business related Bachelors Degree, preferably Accounting or Finance
Minimum GPA 3.0 on a 4.0 scale
Experience in separately managed account a plus
Working knowledge of Checkfree APL or other portfolio accounting system a plus
Proficient in Excel and Word
The successful candidate will have excellent communication skills and be detail oriented, organized, able to prioritize, ability to multi-task, and a self-starter.

[madcowdisease]

The big money is in Stat/Arb, getting a PHD in Statistics is the best way in. Computer science is the next way as it takes a computer to run the analysis the stat guys use. MBA's are a dime a dozen in this world, you'll need something to separate yourself from the herd. A PHD in Finance would be a start.
Doing an internship with one of the big brokers in NY is a way to make some contacts. If there are any hedge funds in the area where you live try contacting them, you never know what might happen.
If you have the time and can get with a company that will sponsor you, getting your series 7 will be necessary to trade professionally.
Starting your own hedge fund may just be the easiest way, but you'll need to add a real sales component to your resume if you want to raise the necessary cash, and remember everyone that invests with you will have to pass the "Accredited Investor" requirements.

So an MBA in Investment Management from a large school (i.e. alumni network) replete with an internship on Wall St. at a brokerage firm is worthless? Makes me wonder why the hell I'm going forward with this.

[aiki14]

So an MBA in Investment Management from a large school (i.e. alumni network) replete with an internship on Wall St. at a brokerage firm is worthless? Makes me wonder why the hell I'm going forward with this.

I didn't mean to imply that your education will be worthless. If you want to be a hedge fund trader or trade with a broker/dealers house money you are quite frankly gonna need all that and a lot of luck. Goldman won't even give you an interview unless you have a MBA or JD from Harvard, MIT, or Stanford. Even if you're Paulson's nephew.
If you want to be a Financial Advisor with one of the big outfits (Merrill, Morgan Stanley, etc) then you are on the right track. Setting up a financial plan for a retail investor you'll be well served by that education. You'll still have to impress a few Vice Presidents and a Managing Director to get the job, but you'll get in the door with that resume.
If you get the internship and you can be on a trading desk at one of the brokerages, make the most of it, maybe you can get lucky and find a lead trader who wants someone he can mold to his system.
To get in the top 100 traders this year you had to make $50 million (in one year, 2006), that kind of money brings tremendous competition. Really smart kids with serious ambition who are willing to do whatever it takes to get the jobs are your competition. There are 10 times as many of them as there are jobs.

[aiki14]

The quant funds have taken a big hit recently as 3rd and higher order standard deviations have run the algorithm's into the red. This may bode well for the "Old time stockpickers". Those of you who expressed an interest in professional trading who do not have the Stat/arb leaning may be benefitted by this development especially if the $3 billion that GS and it's partners dropped into their Glob Eq fund this weekend goes south.
Personally I would love to see this as I find the whole quant trading concept to be a negative for the markets. High order deviations while statistically abherrant do occur and the fallout is huge as we have seen these past few weeks.

[madcowdisease]

The quant funds have taken a big hit recently as 3rd and higher order standard deviations have run the algorithm's into the red. This may bode well for the "Old time stockpickers". Those of you who expressed an interest in professional trading who do not have the Stat/arb leaning may be benefitted by this development especially if the $3 billion that GS and it's partners dropped into their Glob Eq fund this weekend goes south.
Personally I would love to see this as I find the whole quant trading concept to be a negative for the markets. High order deviations while statistically abherrant do occur and the fallout is huge as we have seen these past few weeks.

I've done a little more research in to this as you mentioned a week ago stat/arb. And it seems to me that computer programers and their ilk are, or have been, en vogue on Wall St. I'm with you; I'd love to go back to the traditional trader and his mind.

It should be noted that I'm also looking forward to the unwinding of this sub-prime, CDO mess and a harkening to the "good ol' days" of affordable housing. I, and many of my peers, have been priced out of the real estate market due to these "creative" mortgages of the past 5 yrs. I hope it all comes crashing down and we get back to some semblemnce of sustainable normalcy in housing. Go Bernanke, Go!