Muslims are sick people [Archive] - OnlineTradersForum.com

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Lou

05-18-2007, 07:56 PM

http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/meast/05/18/iraq.honorkilling/index.html

TonyM

05-18-2007, 08:30 PM

Yeah, I wish they were more like the good christians that hung blacks from the nearest tree or massacred Indians wholesale.

soundlanguage

05-18-2007, 10:17 PM

Aww Lou, wow, that's a 5,000 mile wide brush you paint all Muslims with.
:roll: Maybe you did mean it the way it sounded?

If so well, i saw the story too. Here's my thoughts:

Those who did this are from a particular sect of hyper-fundamentalists within a Iraqi subculture is by no means representative of the vast majority of Muslims on the planet. Seems like every week if you really dig into our own domestic news you see or read a story about horrible and degrading behavior carried out by so-called Christian Americans on their own.

So it begs the question, what's "our" excuse? Why do we act so grotesquely against our own kind if we're so... well, not Muslim?

We aren't even living in a time of chaos, social fear, domestic war, poverty which might encourage such depravity. No no, we bathe in freedom, wealth and endless free time thanks to our wonderful western way of life. But perhaps Western Civilization (read: U.S.A.) isn't so freakin' perfect or the ideal pillars of morality for the entire world. :?

Every week i come across crazy stories about heinous crimes that are pre-planned, intentional, done by choice not because it's "apart of the culture" acted out from a violent frenzied mob. Recent examples of stories:
child slavery, a husband battering and burning his wife because she filed fo divorce, frat boys drugging then gang raping a girl and posting it on a MySpace type page, teenage thugs stomping homeless guys to death (and also filming it for fun), nannies molesting toddlers, and much worse though thankfully im drawing a blank!

Sick & shocking behavior is by no means a Muslim thing ... (obviously)

To see cool Muslims to soothe your offended senses, check out the very funny
Axis of Evil comedy tour making the rounds on Comedy Central this weekend. They're the antidote to wack-job variety Muslims we all loathe.

Svenwulf

05-19-2007, 11:08 AM

by my reading, muslims werent involved at all in this story until two weeks after the incident, when the 20+ yazidi from the bus were executed. jmo, seems to be more about illiteracy and poverty than religious compulsion.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yazidi

interesting excerpts:
Purity and taboos
The Yazidis' concern with religious purity, and their reluctance to mix elements perceived to be incompatible, is shown not only in their caste system, but also in various taboos affecting everyday life. Some of these, such as those on exogamy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exogamy) or on insulting or offending men of religion, are widely respected. Others, such as the prohibition of eating lettuce or wearing the color blue, are often ignored when men of religion are not present. Others still are less widely known and may be localized. The purity of the four elements, Earth, Air, Fire, and Water, is protected by a number of taboos–against spitting on earth, water, or fire, for instance. Spitting on the ground, or pouring hot water on the ground, is discouraged by some Yezidi, because they believe that spirits or souls that may be present would be harmed or offended by such actions, if they happen to be hit by the discarded liquid. These may also reflect ancient Iranian (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran) preoccupations, as apparently do the taboos concerning bodily refuse, hair, and menstrual blood. Too much contact with non-Yazidis is also polluting. In the past Yazidis avoided military service which would have led them to live among Muslims (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslims), and were forbidden to share such items as cups or razors with outsiders. Auditory resemblance may lie behind the taboo against eating lettuce, whose name koas resembles Kurdish pronunciations of koasasa. Additionally, lettuce grown near Mosul is thought by some Yezidi to be fertilized with human waste, which may contribute to the idea that it is unsuitable for consumption.
Customs
Yazidi are dominantly monogamous (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monogamous) but chiefs may have more than one wife. Children are baptized (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baptism) at birth and circumcision (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circumcision) is common but not required. Dead are buried in conical tombs immediately after death and buried with hands crossed.
Yazidi are exclusive; clans do not intermarry (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interreligious_marriage) even with other Kurds and accept no converts (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convert). They claim that they are descended only from Adam (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adam). The strongest punishment is expulsion, which is also effectively excommunication (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Excommunication) because the soul of the exiled is forfeit.
As a demiurge (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demiurge) figure, Malak Ta’us is often identified by orthodox Muslims as a Shaitan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shaitan), a Muslim term denoting a devil (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Devil) or demon (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demon) who deceives true believers. In Islam, a common deception by shaytan is to assign partners to Allah (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allah). Thus, the Yazidi have been accused of devil worship. Because of this and due to their pre-Islamic beliefs, they have been oppressed by their Muslim neighbors. Such oppression of Yezidis was exceptionally harsh during the rule of the Ottoman Empire (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ottoman_Empire).
Myths
The tale of the Yazidis' origin found in the Black Book gives them a distinctive ancestry and expresses their feeling of difference from other races. Before the roles of the sexes were determined, Adam and Eve (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adam_and_Eve) quarreled about which of them provided the creative element in the begetting of children. Each stored their seed in a jar which was then sealed. When Eve's was opened it was full of insects and other unpleasant creatures, but inside Adam's jar was a beautiful boy-child. This lovely child, known as son of Jar grew up to marry a houri (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Houri) and became the ancestor of the Yazidis. Therefore, the Yazidi are regarded as descending from Adam alone, while other humans are descendants of both Adam and Eve.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honor_killings

notice:
Honor killing in national legal codes

According to the report of the Special Rapporteur submitted to the 58th session of the United Nations Commission on Human Rights (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Commission_on_Human_Rights) (2002) concerning cultural practices in the family that reflect violence against women (E/CN.4/2002/83):
The Special Rapporteur indicated that there had been contradictory decisions with regard to the honor defense in Brazil (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brazil), and that legislative provisions allowing for partial or complete defence in that context could be found in the penal codes of Argentina (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argentina), Bangladesh (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bangladesh), Ecuador (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ecuador), Egypt (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egypt), Guatemala (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guatemala), Iran (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran), Israel (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel), Jordan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jordan), Lebanon (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lebanon), Peru (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peru), Syria (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syria), Venezuela (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venezuela) and the Palestinian National Authority (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_National_Authority).[14] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honor_killings#_note-11) Though Israel is mentioned in the report, Israeli law does not allow for "family honor" as a defense in murder, partially or completely[15] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honor_killings#_note-12).
Countries where the law is interpreted to allow men to kill female relatives in a premeditated effort as well as for crimes of passions, in flagrante delicto (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In_flagrante_delicto) in the act of committing adultery, include:
Jordan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jordan): Part of article 340 of the Penal Code states that "he who discovers his wife or one of his female relatives committing adultery and kills, wounds, or injures one of them, is exempted from any penalty." [10] (http://www.noor.gov.jo/main/honourcrm.htm) This has twice been put forward for cancellation by the government, but was retained by the Lower House of the Parliament.[16] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honor_killings#_note-13)Countries that allow men to kill female relatives in flagrante delicto (but without premeditation) include:
Syria (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syria): Article 548 states that "He who catches his wife or one of his ascendants [sic], descendants or sister committing adultery (flagrante delicto) or illegitimate sexual acts with another and he killed or injured one or both of them benefits from an exemption of penalty."Countries that allow husbands to kill only their wives in flagrante delicto (based upon the Napoleonic code (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Napoleonic_code)) include:
Morocco (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morocco): Article 418 of the Penal Code states "Murder, injury and beating are excusable if they are committed by a husband on his wife as well as the accomplice at the moment in which he surprises them in the act of adultery."
Haiti (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haiti): Article 269 of the Penal Code states that "in the case of adultery as provided for in Article 284, the murder by a husband of his wife and/or her partner, immediately upon discovering them in flagrante delicto in the conjugal abode, is to be pardoned."
In two Latin American (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latin_America) countries, similar laws were struck down over the past two decades: according to human rights lawyer Julie Mertus "in Brazil (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brazil), until 1991 wife killings were considered to be noncriminal 'honor killings'; in just one year, nearly eight hundred husbands killed their wives. Similarly, in Colombia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colombia), until 1980, a husband legally could kill his wife for committing adultery."[17] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honor_killings#_note-14)Countries where honor killing is not legal but is frequently in practice include:
Turkey (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkey): In Turkey, persons found guilty of this crime are sentenced to life in prison.[18] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honor_killings#_note-15)
Iraqi Kurdistan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraqi_Kurdistan): In Kurdistan, women are killed nearly every day for dishonored their families.[19] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honor_killings#_note-16) Honor killing was legal until 2002 in Iraq.
Pakistan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pakistan): Honor killings are known as Karo Kari (Sindhi (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sindhi_language): ڪارو ڪاري) (Urdu (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urdu): کاروکاری ). The practice is supposed to be prosecuted under ordinary murder, but in practice police and prosecutors often ignore it.[20] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honor_killings#_note-17) Often a man must simply claim the killing was for his honor and he will go free. Nilofer Bakhtiar (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nilofer_Bakhtiar), advisor to Prime Minister (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prime_Minister_of_Pakistan) Shaukat Aziz (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shaukat_Aziz), stated that in 2003, as many as 1,261 women were murdered in honor killings.[21] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honor_killings#_note-18) On December 08 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/December_08), 2004 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2004), under international and domestic pressure, Pakistan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pakistan) enacted a law that made honor killings punishable by a prison term of seven years, or by the death penalty in the most extreme cases. Women's rights organizations were, however, wary of this law as it stops short of outlawing the practice of allowing killers to buy their freedom by paying compensation to the victim's relatives. Women's rights groups claimed that in most cases it is the victim's immediate relatives who are the killers, so inherently the new law is just eyewash. It did not alter the provisions whereby the accused could negotiate pardon with the victim's family under the so-called Islamic provisions. In March 2005 the Pakistani government allied with Islamists (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamists) to reject a bill which sought to strengthen the law against the practice of "honor killing".[22] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honor_killings#_note-19) However, the bill was brought up again, and in November 2006, it passed.[23] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honor_killings#_note-20). It is doubtful whether or not the law would actually help women [11] (http://www.hudoodordinance.com/taqi-usmani-article-english.htm).During the year 2002 about four hundred people (men & women) were killed in the name of (Karo-Kari) in Sindh (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sindh) Out of 382 (245 women ,137 men). The phenomenon of the killing in the name of Honour has direct relevance to the illiteracy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illiteracy) rate, as these killings are more common in the areas where the literacy rate is lower. According to a report issued by the Human Rights Commission of Pakistan (HRCP), Jacobabad (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacobabad) district ranked first in terms of murder in the name of Karo Kari (66 women, 25 men). Jacobabad district has a literacy rate of 23.66, the least literate district of Sindh after Tharparker (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Tharparker&action=edit), and Thatta (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thatta). After Jacobabad, Ghotki (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghotki) district witnessed the highest number of murders in the name of Karo Kari (13 men, 54 women).
After Ghotki , Larkana (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Larkana) is the district with the next highest murder rate in the name of Karo Kari (24 men, 38 women). Larkana as well, has a low literacy rate of 34.95. This is lower than even Naushahro feroze, Dadu (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dadu), and Khairpur Mirs having 39.14, 35.56 and 35.50 percent literacy rates respectively. These districts of the upper Sindh have low literacy rates but high feudal influence in every walk of life.
Jacobabad, Ghotki and Larkana are those districts of Sindh where not only the illiterate ones, but tribal chieftains are also in large number. According to a report released by the HRCP, the cases of Karo Kari are mostly settled at JIRGAS, the private and parallel judicial system of Chieftains. How ever districts of lower parts of Sindh like Tharparkar, Badin, and Thatta experience nominal occurrences of Honour killings because they have lower amount of feudal influence there.

Lou

05-19-2007, 08:09 PM

Yeah, I wish they were more like the good christians that hung blacks from the nearest tree or massacred Indians wholesale.

Correct me if I am wrong, but wasnt that a race issue? Could it have been possibly that a "white christian" hung a "black christian"? or a "white jew" hung a "black christian?

Lou

05-19-2007, 08:17 PM

TonyM

05-19-2007, 10:39 PM

Correct me if I am wrong, but wasn't that a race issue? Could it have been possibly that a "white christian" hung a "black christian"? or a "white jew" hung a "black christian?

Oh, you mean not all christian's were hanging black people or killing Indians? Hmm, I'll bet not all muslims are sick people either, but stating such a thing sounds pretty racist to me. Perhaps you haven't heard other muslims speak out against the practice because you do not choose to objectively search for the evidence, instead relying upon what the media of your choice feeds you.

Oh, almost forgot, how many "witches" were burned in the name of christianity? The Crusades anyone? I'm sure there were people objecting, but it was probably difficult to understand what they were saying between the screams, the flames and all.

Pot, this is kettle, over.

mlegha1

05-19-2007, 10:45 PM

How many muslims to you personally know?From your arrogance and ignorance I am assuming none.It is a very incentive and rude assumption you have made about half the population of this world without knowing a single one of them.I myself being a muslim is highly offended with your remarks.Lack of leadership doesn't make the whole religion guilty please refrain from making such bold statements in the future without any research.

monco123

05-19-2007, 10:49 PM

In Iraq it's not really a question of their belief. Iraq, like alot of middle eastern countries, is basicly still in the stone-age. I do think Islam set the framework for this lack of evolution which is common in that area. This may not make sense but if you go to one of these countries, its like going back in time. No flux capacitor required.

soundlanguage

05-20-2007, 12:56 AM

Iraq, like alot of middle eastern countries, is basicly still in the stone-age. I do think Islam set the framework for this lack of evolution which is common in that area. This may not make sense but if you go to one of these countries, its like going back in time.

Oy vey, my aching head. This issue is so complex.

The Middle East is a huge region, so blanket statements don't apply. (does it anywhere?) Comparing their evolution to us or anyone doesnt work out long term when you say the same for western society and say, Indian history. We learned out of "sequence" too, developed in an irregular herky jerky manner to, compared to them. Its all relative.

Countries there like the U.S. is comprised of varieties of subgroups that range from extremely modern and cool, or overtly violent and scary. Hostility we're talking about (stoning death) is often masqued as being for religious reasons but yeah, from a modern point of view we can easily see at the heart of the anger it is also deep seeded misunderstandings or negative interpretations of religious texts, inability to adapt to change, compounded by hopelessness/powerlessness, poverty and run of the mill extremist mysogyny. I can point out just as many extremists/confused American psychos who don't hesitite to cause violence for any reason too, but our news doesnt frame their actions the same way. A neanderthal is a neanderthal whereever you go. The primitve ape brain winning out over the civilized frontal lobe which processes reason and caution a half second slower and requires constant reinforcement. Militancy doesnt take time to think, thats why people kill. Militantcy is everywhere, Burma, China, Sudan, Russia, the Paris suburbs, south Philly USA, all to different degrees.

Funny enough we don't see the struggle btwn the modern muslims and the "stone age" sorts or can understand their internal politics because the US only has extremists on the brain. We lump "them" all together due to the negative, notable actions of the few, failing to distinguish the "Osama variety" who are not just at war with "us" but primarily with moderate muslims, anywhere and everywhere. Within Saudi Arabia its a simmering pot ready to blow. Violent fundamentalists first targeted their own, not American western culture/religion, it's important to recognize this and not feel we alone are on the hit list. Those who have no power and no voice are targetting those who do, in a nutshell.

The same 'fundamentalist VS moderates' struggle is happening here as well, (a historical ongoing battle) except we haven't seen extremists suicide bombers blowing "us" up (moderates, conservatives, liberals). It's more isolated incidents where individuals assault another individual-small scale low level warfare. Either way a stoning in Iraq or gang violence in the U.S. aggression usually leads to people dying, its all cowardice emtionalism BS in my book, that some idiot that can't control himself. Violence repluses me in every way, makes me wonder if humans really have a desitiny at all. Good people are allowing 'the rest' to drag us all down, to all our misery.

Pass the gin baby, past time to stop worrying 'bout humanity and all that jive.:lol:

P.S.
And as i mentioned before Comedy central is again running the Axis of Evil tour. Do catch it or rent it to see what i'm talking about (cool muslims)...

Lou

05-20-2007, 10:24 AM

Oy vey, my aching head. This issue is so complex.

The Middle East is a huge region, so blanket statements don't apply. (does it anywhere?) Comparing their evolution to us or anyone doesnt work out long term when you say the same for western society and say, Indian history. We learned out of "sequence" too, developed in an irregular herky jerky manner to, compared to them. Its all relative.

Countries there like the U.S. is comprised of varieties of subgroups that range from extremely modern and cool, or overtly violent and scary. Hostility we're talking about (stoning death) is often masqued as being for religious reasons but yeah, from a modern point of view we can easily see at the heart of the anger it is also deep seeded misunderstandings or negative interpretations of religious texts, inability to adapt to change, compounded by hopelessness/powerlessness, poverty and run of the mill extremist mysogyny. I can point out just as many extremists/confused American psychos who don't hesitite to cause violence for any reason too, but our news doesnt frame their actions the same way. A neanderthal is a neanderthal whereever you go. The primitve ape brain winning out over the civilized frontal lobe which processes reason and caution a half second slower and requires constant reinforcement. Militancy doesnt take time to think, thats why people kill. Militantcy is everywhere, Burma, China, Sudan, Russia, the Paris suburbs, south Philly USA, all to different degrees.

Funny enough we don't see the struggle btwn the modern muslims and the "stone age" sorts or can understand their internal politics because the US only has extremists on the brain. We lump "them" all together due to the negative, notable actions of the few, failing to distinguish the "Osama variety" who are not just at war with "us" but primarily with moderate muslims, anywhere and everywhere. Within Saudi Arabia its a simmering pot ready to blow. Violent fundamentalists first targeted their own, not American western culture/religion, it's important to recognize this and not feel we alone are on the hit list. Those who have no power and no voice are targetting those who do, in a nutshell.

The same 'fundamentalist VS moderates' struggle is happening here as well, (a historical ongoing battle) except we haven't seen extremists suicide bombers blowing "us" up (moderates, conservatives, liberals). It's more isolated incidents where individuals assault another individual-small scale low level warfare. Either way a stoning in Iraq or gang violence in the U.S. aggression usually leads to people dying, its all cowardice emtionalism BS in my book, that some idiot that can't control himself. Violence repluses me in every way, makes me wonder if humans really have a desitiny at all. Good people are allowing 'the rest' to drag us all down, to all our misery.

Pass the gin baby, past time to stop worrying 'bout humanity and all that jive.:lol:

P.S.
And as i mentioned before Comedy central is again running the Axis of Evil tour. Do catch it or rent it to see what i'm talking about (cool muslims)...

It is a very complex issue, your right, one that needs to be talked about more.

So your a gin drinker? Bombay?

monco123

05-20-2007, 06:16 PM

Oy vey, my aching head. This issue is so complex.

The Middle East is a huge region, so blanket statements don't apply. (does it anywhere?) Comparing their evolution to us or anyone doesnt work out long term when you say the same for western society and say, Indian history. We learned out of "sequence" too, developed in an irregular herky jerky manner to, compared to them. Its all relative.

Countries there like the U.S. is comprised of varieties of subgroups that range from extremely modern and cool, or overtly violent and scary. Hostility we're talking about (stoning death) is often masqued as being for religious reasons but yeah, from a modern point of view we can easily see at the heart of the anger it is also deep seeded misunderstandings or negative interpretations of religious texts, inability to adapt to change, compounded by hopelessness/powerlessness, poverty and run of the mill extremist mysogyny. I can point out just as many extremists/confused American psychos who don't hesitite to cause violence for any reason too, but our news doesnt frame their actions the same way. A neanderthal is a neanderthal whereever you go. The primitve ape brain winning out over the civilized frontal lobe which processes reason and caution a half second slower and requires constant reinforcement. Militancy doesnt take time to think, thats why people kill. Militantcy is everywhere, Burma, China, Sudan, Russia, the Paris suburbs, south Philly USA, all to different degrees.

Funny enough we don't see the struggle btwn the modern muslims and the "stone age" sorts or can understand their internal politics because the US only has extremists on the brain. We lump "them" all together due to the negative, notable actions of the few, failing to distinguish the "Osama variety" who are not just at war with "us" but primarily with moderate muslims, anywhere and everywhere. Within Saudi Arabia its a simmering pot ready to blow. Violent fundamentalists first targeted their own, not American western culture/religion, it's important to recognize this and not feel we alone are on the hit list. Those who have no power and no voice are targetting those who do, in a nutshell.

The same 'fundamentalist VS moderates' struggle is happening here as well, (a historical ongoing battle) except we haven't seen extremists suicide bombers blowing "us" up (moderates, conservatives, liberals). It's more isolated incidents where individuals assault another individual-small scale low level warfare. Either way a stoning in Iraq or gang violence in the U.S. aggression usually leads to people dying, its all cowardice emtionalism BS in my book, that some idiot that can't control himself. Violence repluses me in every way, makes me wonder if humans really have a desitiny at all. Good people are allowing 'the rest' to drag us all down, to all our misery.

Pass the gin baby, past time to stop worrying 'bout humanity and all that jive.:lol:

P.S.
And as i mentioned before Comedy central is again running the Axis of Evil tour. Do catch it or rent it to see what i'm talking about (cool muslims)...

It's easy to watch tv, read newspaper and think you know what these people are like. It's another thing to see it first hand for months and months. I would absolutely lump every Iraqi (not just muslims, theres ALOT of christian kurds in Iraq) together in the regards that they are basicly primitive cavemen. This applies to those hostile towards US forces and those that aren't. Caveman is exactly how they think and act.